[TRANSCRIPT] The Art of Interviewing: Tips for Converting Interviews into Offers

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Welcome to this interview preparation session. Today, I will go through some valuable information that we only share with our candidates at BCG. I'll also provide you with links to a PDF that discusses this material, which has proven to be enormously effective. We typically see a very high conversion rate among candidates who undergo our interview preparation process compared to those who don't. The information I'll share with you today tends to secure jobs for 60-70% of candidates who follow it, while those who don't often see success rates of only 10-20%. This information is extremely powerful, and if you invest your time in this webinar, it could significantly transform your job search and interview outcomes.

I've been in this field for 25 years, focusing exclusively on law firm placements. I know what it takes to secure jobs in law firms, and the insights I'll share today are designed to make a huge difference. Following this advice can increase your chances of landing a job by 50% or more. I'll explain everything clearly and concisely, and I'll provide links to additional resources, including PDFs, for further exploration.

The key point I want to emphasize is that if a law firm is interviewing you, they genuinely want to hire you. They have a job that needs to be done and are looking for someone who can meet their standards. Unfortunately, many candidates disqualify themselves during the interview process by giving the wrong answers to certain questions. While this webinar isn't about addressing each specific question, I will focus on the most important strategies for successful interviews.

One crucial piece of advice is to always portray yourself as a reliable and diligent worker. If someone assigns you a task, do it without hesitation and to the best of your ability. This attitude demonstrates that you are a committed and dependable candidate, which is exactly what law firms are looking for. Your goal in any interview should be to show that you are the best person for the job and that you are willing to work hard to meet the firm's needs.

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In the legal profession, those who excel are the ones who consistently prioritize the work over their own ego or desires. Whether you're an associate or a partner, your focus should always be on delivering high-quality work and meeting the expectations of those you work for. This mindset is what allows attorneys to succeed and advance in their careers.

When you go into an interview, it's essential to focus on what the firm needs, not on what you want. Questions about salary, remote work, and benefits can be addressed after you've secured the job. Initially, your primary goal should be to convince the firm that you are the right fit for the position. If you appear too focused on your own interests, the firm may see you as a potential problem and choose not to hire you.

Another important point is that successful attorneys maintain this focus throughout their entire careers. Even partners with large books of business often avoid displaying their egos, instead prioritizing their clients' needs and adhering to the firm's rules. This humility and dedication are key factors in their success.

In summary, when you go into an interview, make sure you demonstrate that you are focused on the firm's needs and are willing to work hard to meet them. Avoid making the conversation about what you want, and instead show that you are committed to doing whatever it takes to get the job done. By adopting this approach, you'll significantly increase your chances of securing the job.

When I work with BCG clients or candidates, I typically go through this short PDF in about 30 minutes. I'm not going to go into great detail about it here because there are other important matters to cover. However, it's crucial to understand that your primary goal in any interview is to advance to the next stage of the process. You don't want to give the law firm any reason to disqualify you during the initial steps of the interview.

At the beginning of an interview, the firm is assessing whether to qualify or disqualify you for the job. Remember, if a law firm has an opening, they are interested in hiring someone because they have work that needs to be done. If that work isn't being completed, the firm loses money, so there is a financial incentive to hire you. However, candidates often make simple mistakes that can jeopardize their chances of getting the job.

One common mistake is not having the camera directly facing you during a video interview. Some people put up a picture instead of turning on their Zoom camera, which can disqualify them from most jobs. Firms want to see you present and engaged. Another mistake is failing to dress appropriately. Some candidates think that since it's a Zoom call, they don't need to wear a suit. This is incorrect. You absolutely need to dress up for the interview and look your best, as this shows respect for the firm. Not doing so can significantly reduce your chances of being hired.

Regarding your background during the interview, it’s important to choose a neutral setting. I personally use a business background when I speak to candidates. It’s best to avoid showing your workspace, home, or anything too personal behind you. For example, I once had a partner candidate who wasn’t getting job offers despite having several interviews. It turned out that his background showed a messy kitchen with fast food bags scattered around, which didn’t leave a good impression. Law firms are unlikely to make an offer if they see a disorganized or cluttered environment, as it may reflect poorly on your work habits.

Similarly, in-person interviews require careful attention to detail. Always present yourself in the best possible light. This includes maintaining strong eye contact and bringing a copy of your resume with you. Avoid looking down or appearing disconnected, as you are being evaluated on whether you can relate to clients effectively. Making good eye contact and projecting confidence are crucial.

Before any interview, make sure you research the attorneys you will be meeting with, understand the firm’s practice areas, and compare them to your own experience. If you find similarities between their work and what you’ve done, emphasize those. If there are areas you haven’t worked in but are enthusiastic about, express that enthusiasm clearly. Showing that you’re eager to contribute and learn is key to making a positive impression.

These are just a few basic yet vital points to keep in mind during the interview process. By following these guidelines, you can significantly improve your chances of advancing in the interview process and ultimately securing the job.

Understanding the work and figuring out how you would fit into that role is crucial. You can express your interest in doing a specific type of work without necessarily mentioning that you've read certain materials, but if the firm specializes in that kind of work, it’s essential to highlight your alignment with it. Later in this presentation, I will discuss the reasons you should give for seeking a new opportunity, which is a critical part of the interview process. This section is very important because it's the number one question that law firms ask about, and it’s often where candidates get disqualified.

When asked why you’re seeking a new opportunity, you must provide compelling reasons. I’ll go through several effective responses, but keep in mind that this is a key question and one that can make or break your chances. Additionally, questions about remote work or salary can also be tricky. When asked about remote work, a good response is to express your willingness to comply with whatever the firm requires. As for salary, avoid stating a specific number that might not align with what the firm is offering. Instead, say something like, "I would expect to earn what similar attorneys in my position are making," and emphasize that you are more interested in the work than the salary.

It's important to understand that your first five years of practice are primarily about gaining experience in your practice area. Being paid for that experience is almost secondary. You are not considered a fully competent attorney in any practice area until you have at least five years of experience. Any gap in your employment during this period can be very detrimental to your career. Therefore, you should be focused on getting as much training and experience as possible during these early years, rather than being overly concerned with salary. Disqualifying yourself from a job based on salary demands is risky, especially since you won’t have many other options at this stage.

There are five key questions that I go over with all my candidates in this PDF. You can click on these to see videos and read more about the different answers. The first question is: Can you do the job? If a law firm is interviewing you, they likely believe that your background and experience indicate that you can do the work. However, they will also be concerned about other factors, such as your ego, your willingness to do various tasks, your expectations for advancement, and your preference for remote work versus being in the office.

For example, I recently saw a candidate who was offered a job with a $450,000 salary—an incredible opportunity, especially since he was currently making $250,000. However, after receiving the offer, he asked if remote work was an option for one or two days a week due to his long commute. The firm immediately rescinded the offer because they required everyone to be in the office. This shows how critical it is to demonstrate that you can do the job as required, without imposing your own conditions.

Being able to do the job involves more than just having the right experience; it also means being willing to do whatever the firm needs. I've seen attorneys get fired for refusing to work in certain practice areas because they only wanted to focus on one. This kind of attitude can be detrimental to your career. I highly recommend reviewing the article at the beginning of this PDF and the attached material about the "Message to Garcia" in your career, as it will transform the way you approach job interviews.

It's okay to turn down a job if it doesn’t align with what you’re looking for, but remember that firms are looking for candidates who will get the job done without raising too many questions or making things about themselves. This is one of the most important components of securing a job during an interview.

The next key point is your ability to commit to the job. Commitment means that you want to join a firm and stay there for the long term. I’ll discuss the importance of commitment further in this presentation, but know that law firms want to hire someone who is dedicated to the role and who won’t leave prematurely for a higher salary or other reasons. They want to believe that if they hire you, you’ll stick around through the ups and downs, train properly, and contribute to the firm’s success.

This is a significant concern for firms during the interview process. If they sense that you may not be fully committed or might leave soon after joining, it raises a major red flag. Having a lot of short-term jobs on your resume can be a warning sign to potential employers, and it’s something you should be prepared to address in your interview.

Having frequent moves on your resume signals to potential employers that you may not be likely to stay at your next firm, as it suggests a pattern of transience. Every time you move, it affects your ability to secure future job opportunities because firms become wary of investing in someone who might not stay long. Law firms want to believe that it’s important for you to stay with them long-term. They invest time and resources to bring you up to speed on the matters you’ll be handling, provide training, and help you build client relationships. If you leave prematurely, it disrupts these relationships, undermines the morale of others at the firm, and can cause the firm to question your commitment.

Therefore, it’s crucial to demonstrate in interviews that you are committed to staying with the firm. Frame your past moves in a way that reassures the interviewer of your stability and commitment. I’ll discuss this in more detail later in the presentation.

Another critical factor is your ability to be managed. This means being willing to follow the firm’s direction and stick around for the long term. Being manageable means not questioning assignments unnecessarily, not making things about your ego, and not aligning yourself with individuals who are against the firm. Every firm has a few people who are dissatisfied or harbor negative feelings towards the management. These individuals tend to gossip, close doors, and create a toxic atmosphere. Partners and management can pick up on this behavior very quickly, and it often leads to those individuals being marginalized or even let go.

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I’ve seen many candidates lose their jobs because they questioned assignments, allied with discontented colleagues, or otherwise failed to do what the firm wanted. The primary role of law firm management is to identify and remove people who aren’t aligned with the firm’s goals or who cause disruption. A significant percentage of people who are let go from law firms are those who can’t be managed or who don’t fully support the firm.

Your job, both at your current firm and in future positions, is to be a "soldier"—to do what you’re asked without resistance and to avoid being perceived as someone who opposes management. In interviews, it’s crucial to present yourself as someone who can be managed effectively. Even after you’ve been hired, if you show signs of going against your employer, they will likely pick up on it and may eventually replace you. This is crucial to remember if you aspire to be a partner or hold a long-term position in a firm. Law firms want individuals who will align with their objectives and not challenge them unnecessarily.

This doesn't mean you can never ask questions, but it does mean you need to be very careful about how you present yourself in interviews and in your daily work. Employers want to be confident that you will respect the firm’s decisions and focus on doing the work rather than causing issues.

Even within major law firms, there are attorneys who don’t necessarily bring in business but are kept around because they are committed, do their work diligently, and can be managed. These individuals are valuable to the firm because they are reliable and pose less risk than hiring someone new who might not fit in. This kind of commitment and manageability can protect your career and make you a valuable asset to any firm.

Partners, too, are managed by the partnership as a whole. They speak in terms of what the partnership wants and align their actions accordingly. Understanding and accepting this dynamic is vital for your entire career. You must consistently demonstrate that you can be managed and that you are focused on doing the work the firm requires.

Another common mistake candidates make in interviews is acting as though the law firm needs to answer all their questions or prove itself to them. While it’s normal to have some questions, approaching the interview with an attitude that the firm needs to meet your demands can quickly derail your chances. Firms are looking for candidates who can do the job and fit into their culture, not those who come across as overly demanding or skeptical of the firm’s practices.

Instead, approach the interview with the mindset of understanding how you can contribute to the firm and demonstrating that you are willing to do what it takes to succeed. Avoid questioning the firm’s methods or acting as though you are evaluating them more than they are evaluating you. This is a key aspect of presenting yourself as a candidate who can be managed and who is focused on the firm’s needs, which will greatly improve your chances of getting the job.

When you approach every interview, it's crucial to act as though you genuinely want the job. This attitude is incredibly important. You should convey that this is exactly the opportunity you're looking for, and that you’re enthusiastic about it. It’s essential to talk in terms that show your excitement and eagerness for the position. To help get yourself in the right mindset before an interview, you might consider sitting down and writing out the reasons why you want the job, how the work aligns with your goals, and what excites you about the opportunity. This process can help you get psyched up and enter the interview with the right energy.

Let me share a story to illustrate this point. I had a candidate from Skadden Arps in New York who was making around $370,000 a year. Her husband needed to relocate to a small town in West Virginia—Martinsburg, I believe. I submitted her to several firms in that area, none of which paid anywhere near what she had been earning—more like $60,000 to $80,000. Despite the significant pay cut, she went into each interview with enthusiasm, expressing how much she wanted the job, how perfect the opportunity was for her, and how she could add value to the firm. Her positive attitude and eagerness to contribute blew people away, leading to multiple job offers. Because she had several offers, she was even able to negotiate a better salary.

Many people might have approached those interviews with a sense of defeat, thinking the positions were beneath them. But she succeeded because she approached each interview as if it were the perfect opportunity for her. This likely also contributed to her initial success in securing a job at Skadden Arps, even though she hadn’t attended a top 25 law school. Her genuine enthusiasm and ability to convey that this was the right job for her made all the difference.

Your goal in every interview should be to get the job. It’s not about questioning the firm or acting like you don’t really want the position. Once you secure the job, you can then use that as leverage to negotiate or consider other offers. But first, you need to land the job. This approach is something we consistently advise our candidates to adopt, and it works.

Being likable is also critical in interviews. Every person you meet during the interview process could be someone who changes your life by hiring you. So, it's important to act like you really want the job, try to build rapport with the interviewers, smile, and be engaged. Showing some vulnerability can also help build a connection, but overall, being likable means doing your best to connect with the interviewers and not coming across as depressed or uninterested.

To illustrate the power of being likable, I often share this analogy: When I was a child, around eight or nine years old, my mom took me to look at puppies. There were about ten puppies to choose from, but one of them ran up to me, licked me, and enthusiastically jumped into my lap. That was the puppy I chose, even though it wasn’t the biggest or the best-looking dog. It was the most enthusiastic, and it made me feel a connection. This same principle applies to interviews. If you show genuine enthusiasm and make the interviewers feel like you are excited about the opportunity, they are more likely to want to hire you.

All of these aspects—acting like you want the job, being likable, and preparing thoroughly—are crucial. When I work with BCG candidates, I emphasize these points and provide resources, such as articles, to help them succeed. If you take these steps seriously, your chances of securing a position will improve significantly.

There are, of course, many specific questions that you may need to answer in an interview, and how you handle them can also make a big difference. But by focusing on these foundational principles, you’ll be setting yourself up for success in any interview.

I won't go into specific interview questions in today's presentation, as that will be covered in a session next week, likely on Wednesday. However, I do want to emphasize one crucial question that often makes the difference between getting an offer or not: asking what success looks like in the first 30, 60, or 90 days. This question demonstrates that you are motivated to succeed and willing to do things the way the firm wants. When the interviewer provides an answer, it gives you an opportunity to discuss how you can meet those expectations, making you appear as someone who genuinely wants to do a good job.

This is far more effective than asking questions about salary or other topics that may not positively influence the interviewer. Asking about success metrics can change the course of your interview, making you stand out as a candidate who is serious about contributing to the firm’s success.

I’ll send you the PDF I mentioned earlier, which is concise because I don't typically spend a lot of time covering every detail during candidate consultations. However, if you take the time to review it, you'll understand the most important points to focus on during interviews.

Now, let’s go over some additional rules that are important to keep in mind. We used to sell a book on Amazon for around $39, but we decided to take it off the market for various reasons and now share its content with candidates directly. The book discusses common pitfalls candidates encounter during interviews.

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One key point is that you must be concise in your answers. Lawyers are expected to be succinct, just as they are trained to be in law school. Long-winded answers give the interviewer more reasons to reject you. The more you talk, the more likely you are to say something that could be detrimental. Additionally, in any personal interaction, long answers tend to bore people. The most effective communicators are those who do about 30% of the talking.

For example, one of my mentors, Jay Abraham, once shared a story about a flight he took. During the flight, he asked the person sitting next to him questions for the entire three-hour journey without talking much about himself. At the end of the flight, the person told Jay it was the most interesting conversation he had ever had and wanted to stay in touch. This story illustrates that people appreciate it when you let them talk, and in interviews, this can work to your advantage.

Listening more than talking is a skill that smart people often excel at. In my career, I’ve hired graduates from top law schools like Harvard and Stanford, and I’ve noticed that the brightest people tend to be the ones who listen more and talk less. They gather information, assess situations, and respond thoughtfully. This is a skill you can develop, and it’s very important in interviews.

Another common mistake candidates make is not telling the truth or exaggerating details about their previous positions. It’s crucial to be honest. If you try to embellish or mislead, interviewers will often see through it, which can damage your credibility. It’s much better to be vulnerable and truthful, even if the truth isn't perfect.

Listening carefully and sometimes paraphrasing what the interviewer says back to them is also a valuable skill. This technique, often taught to therapists and psychologists, shows that you understand and are engaged in the conversation. It helps build rapport with the interviewer.

Now, let’s discuss some of the biggest traps to avoid. One of the most critical is saying anything negative about your current or previous employer. No matter how you feel, your statements should always be along the lines of "I really enjoyed the people there" or "The work was great." You need to come across as loyal and positive about your current or past positions, even if you’re moving on for legitimate reasons. When asked why you're looking for a new job, you can mention wanting a more teamwork-oriented environment or needing a shorter commute, both of which are reasonable and acceptable reasons.

If you're interviewing with a firm closer to your home, you can discuss how a long commute is reducing your billable hours and impacting your productivity. Wanting more responsibility is another potential reason, though it’s not always the strongest. However, if you’ve always wanted to work for the company you're interviewing with, make sure to say so. This is a powerful reason that can set you apart from other candidates.

For example, I recently had a candidate who worked in insurance defense but had an opportunity to interview with a firm specializing in product liability and mass torts—a better position with more exposure to larger clients. He knew a partner at the firm, someone he grew up with, who had always spoken highly of the firm. During the interview, the candidate expressed that he had always wanted to work for that firm, which immediately set him apart from other applicants. He quickly received an offer.

Expressing a genuine desire to work for a specific firm can be incredibly effective. Saying that you’ve always wanted to work for a firm and having good reasons to back it up is a strong answer. Talking about no room for advancement at your current firm is another possible reason, especially if the firm doesn’t promote from within or has limited opportunities.

These are all strategies that can significantly improve your chances of success in an interview. By being honest, concise, and enthusiastic, and by demonstrating a genuine interest in the firm, you can make a strong impression that sets you apart from other candidates.

Another strategy that works particularly well is when you're interviewing with a larger firm, highlighting the advantages of working at such a firm. Larger firms typically handle more significant clients, have more resources, and offer exposure to more sophisticated work. You could say something like, "I normally wouldn’t have considered applying, but I found out about this opportunity and am excited about the prospect of working at a larger firm. I believe it would allow me to delve deeper into my practice area and gain experience with more complex cases." This approach demonstrates that you’re genuinely interested in the opportunities that a larger firm can provide, and it can resonate well with interviewers.

On the other hand, if you’re interviewing with a smaller firm, you can emphasize the benefits of working in a more intimate, collegial environment. You might say something like, "I’m particularly drawn to the tight-knit partnership and the collaborative environment that smaller firms offer. I’ve heard great things about the culture here, and I’m excited about the direction this firm is going." These types of answers show that you’ve thought carefully about why the firm is a good fit for you and that you’re enthusiastic about joining their team.

It’s also important to avoid discussing any negative aspects of your current or previous firm, such as toxicity, financial issues, or internal conflicts. These topics can be red flags to potential employers. Instead, focus on the positive reasons for seeking a new opportunity, like wanting to specialize in a particular practice area or seeking a more collaborative environment.

When it comes to salary and benefits, while these are naturally important to anyone looking for a job, they are topics you should approach with caution. Firms typically have a range they are willing to pay, and it's usually better to wait until they bring up salary rather than introducing it yourself. Once you have an offer, many firms—especially those that aren’t the largest—are open to negotiation. However, this should be done after you’ve received the offer, not during the initial interview stages.

There are certain questions that candidates sometimes ask that can inadvertently disqualify them from consideration. For example, asking about how many hours you’ll be expected to work, how soon you can expect a raise or promotion, or how much vacation time you’ll receive can make you seem more focused on the perks of the job rather than the work itself. These questions suggest that you might be more concerned about your comfort than about contributing to the firm’s success. It’s generally better to avoid these topics until you’ve secured the job.

In summary, when preparing for an interview, focus on the positive aspects of the opportunity, be ready to discuss why you’re excited about the firm, and avoid asking questions that could make you appear disengaged or overly focused on compensation. This approach will help you make a strong impression and increase your chances of receiving an offer.

One common mistake that almost always leads to disqualification is asking about a firm’s maternity policy or vacation time during an interview. Law firms generally don’t appreciate these questions early in the process because they suggest that you might be more focused on benefits than on the work itself. Asking whether the firm will challenge you in the position can also be a red flag, as it implies that you may not be interested in staying long-term if the firm doesn’t meet your expectations.

It’s essential to maintain a positive and focused demeanor during the interview, avoiding any signs of defensiveness or giving too much personal information. For instance, bringing up health issues, personal struggles, or political and religious affiliations can backfire. These topics can make interviewers question whether you’re the right fit for the firm, or worse, they might unconsciously bias against you—even if they try to remain neutral.

Let me give you some specific examples of topics to avoid:

Health Issues: Discussing past or ongoing health problems, including hospitalizations or diseases, is not advisable. While it's illegal for firms to discriminate based on health, bringing it up can create concerns about your reliability and long-term performance.
Political or Religious Affiliations: Mentioning your involvement in political campaigns or religious activities can be risky. Given the divisiveness in today’s political climate, you never know who might be reviewing your resume or conducting the interview. It’s best to leave these affiliations off your resume and out of the conversation unless they are directly relevant to the job.
Personal Struggles: Avoid discussing personal trauma or sensitive issues, such as experiences with rape or other personal challenges, in an interview setting. While it’s important to acknowledge these experiences in the right context, a job interview is not the place to do so. The focus should remain on your qualifications and ability to perform the job.
Sexual Orientation: While many firms are committed to diversity and inclusion, it’s still a delicate topic. You don't want to make your sexual orientation a focal point in the interview unless it’s relevant to the firm’s culture or diversity initiatives. Again, the primary focus should be on your professional skills and experience.
Getting Fired: If you’ve been terminated from a previous position, handle it carefully. It’s better to frame the situation in a way that emphasizes your desire for a better fit or more growth opportunities rather than focusing on the negative aspects of your departure.
Social Issues: Taking strong stances on social issues that don’t relate to the job can also be risky. These topics can alienate the interviewer, especially if their views differ from yours. It’s better to keep the conversation centered on your professional qualifications and how you can contribute to the firm.

When it comes to discussing potential travel requirements or weekend work, it’s important not to show hesitation. If the job requires travel or working outside regular hours, express your willingness to meet these demands. Remember, your goal is to secure the offer. Once you have the offer, you’ll have more leverage to negotiate terms or consider other opportunities.

It's also crucial to avoid getting caught off guard by unexpected questions. Whether it’s about work hours, specific duties, or other job requirements, always respond in a way that shows you’re ready and willing to do whatever the job entails. Once you have the offer in hand, you can then decide if the job is the right fit for you.

Long-winded answers are another pitfall to avoid. The more you talk, the more likely you are to say something that might give the interviewer a reason not to hire you. Keep your answers concise and to the point. Interviewers generally prefer to do most of the talking, so if you find yourself dominating the conversation, it’s a sign you need to rein it in.

Before going into an interview, make sure you thoroughly research the firm. This will help you avoid asking questions that you could easily find answers to online and demonstrate that you’re well-prepared. The more you know about the firm, the better you can tailor your answers to align with their needs and culture.

In summary, your focus during an interview should be on presenting yourself as the best candidate for the job. Avoid discussing personal topics, giving long-winded answers, or asking questions that suggest you’re more interested in benefits than the work itself. Keep the conversation professional, concise, and centered on how you can contribute to the firm’s success.

One critical mistake candidates often make is expressing desperation during an interview. When you communicate that you're desperate for a job, it sends a message to the law firm that you might not be the best candidate. Law firms prefer to hire individuals who are confident in their abilities and who appear to be in demand. Desperation can be perceived as a sign of weakness, which is something you want to avoid at all costs.

A strategy that has proven effective for us at BCG is creating a sense of demand for our candidates. For instance, if a candidate has been submitted to several firms and gets an interview, we often follow up with the other firms that haven't yet responded, informing them that the candidate is receiving significant interest. This approach can create a perception that the candidate is highly sought after, prompting other firms to reconsider and potentially invite the candidate for an interview. When firms see that there is market demand for you, they are more likely to take an interest because they don’t want to miss out on a strong candidate.

In interviews, it's also important to ask thoughtful questions. Avoid saying, "I think I've heard all I need to hear." Instead, ask questions that show your interest in excelling in the job, such as, "What can I do to succeed in this role?" or "How soon do you plan to make a decision?" These types of questions demonstrate your eagerness to contribute and your genuine interest in the position.

Exaggerating your experience is another common pitfall. Law firms can usually tell when you're embellishing your qualifications, which can severely damage your credibility. It’s better to be honest about your experience and let the firm see that you’re someone they can trust. An example of this is a candidate I worked with who had minimal experience in a certain area but was honest about his limitations. The firm appreciated his honesty and hired him, even offering him a position slightly below his years of experience, which was still an excellent outcome. Honesty can go a long way in building trust with potential employers.

When asked about other places you're interviewing, it's best to downplay it. If you're asked directly, you can say, "I'm only applying to a few places because I believe this firm is a great fit for me." This shows that you’re selective and genuinely interested in the firm you’re interviewing with.

Always be prepared to discuss references, as some firms will check them, especially smaller or mid-sized firms. Bringing a list of your references to the interview, along with copies of your resume, demonstrates that you are well-prepared and organized.

Another point to consider is your behavior with your cellphone during interviews. I had a candidate who was flown out for an interview at a large firm in North Carolina. He had done well during the first day of interviews, but on the second day, during a lunch meeting, he repeatedly checked his phone. This behavior came across as disrespectful and distracted, leading the firm to rescind their offer despite his strong performance the day before. To avoid this, turn off your cellphone during any interactions with the firm, ensuring that you remain fully present and engaged.

In summary, avoid expressing desperation, exaggerating your experience, or displaying behaviors that could be perceived as unprofessional, such as using your cellphone during interviews. Focus on presenting yourself as a confident, in-demand candidate who is genuinely interested in the position. By asking thoughtful questions, being honest, and staying engaged, you increase your chances of securing the job.

I'm not going to dive into the "Tell me about yourself" question today since I recently did an extensive webinar on that topic. However, I do want to emphasize the importance of doing your research on the firm before your interview. This isn't difficult—visiting the firm’s website and reading up on their press releases, recent cases, or any news articles about them can provide valuable context. Being well-informed will not only help you ask intelligent questions but also show that you're genuinely interested in the firm.

Now, I want to focus on a crucial point—perhaps the most important thing we've discussed today: the mindset and psychology of lawyers, particularly how it affects interviews. Lawyers are trained to identify weaknesses. Whether in litigation, corporate law, or any other practice area, they are constantly looking for vulnerabilities in their opponents, contracts, or legal arguments. This ability to find and exploit weaknesses is a core skill in the legal profession.

As a result, lawyers often carry this mindset into their everyday lives, including how they evaluate potential hires. When you're in an interview, the people on the other side of the table are likely assessing you through the same lens, looking for any weaknesses that could be a red flag. This is why it's so important to portray strength and competence at all times during the interview process.

You should never present yourself as weak or highlight your shortcomings. Instead, you need to "spin" any potential negatives into positives. For example, if you didn’t attend a top law school, you might say something like, "I didn't attend the most prestigious law school, but that’s driven me to work harder and excel in my career. I’ve developed a strong work ethic, and I’m fully committed to making a significant impact here." This approach not only addresses the potential concern but also frames it as a strength.

Understanding this psychology is key to doing well in interviews. You must consistently portray yourself as a strong, capable, and confident candidate. If you bring up weaknesses without spinning them into strengths, you may not be seen as the strong candidate that firms are looking for.

Now, I want to pivot a bit and talk about how this idea of strength and innovation plays out over the course of a legal career and even in the life cycle of businesses. Just like businesses, legal careers can start strong with lots of growth and potential, but without continuous innovation and hard work, they can plateau or even decline.

Consider the trajectory of many businesses. A company might start out with rapid growth and success, driven by innovation and hard work. But over time, if that innovation slows or stops, the business can begin to decline. This can happen to the best of companies—think of Intel, which was once a dominant force in tech but has struggled in recent years due to a lack of innovation. Even companies like Apple and Google, which have been at the top of their industries for years, face challenges as their growth slows and competitors emerge.

The same can happen in a legal career. When you're starting out, you might be full of energy, constantly learning, and innovating in how you approach your work. But as you become more established, there's a risk of becoming complacent. If you're not continuously pushing yourself to grow, learn, and adapt, you might find your career plateauing.

To avoid this, you need to keep the mindset of constant improvement. Always be looking for ways to innovate in your practice, whether that’s by learning new skills, taking on challenging cases, or staying up to date with the latest legal trends. The most successful lawyers are those who never stop growing and adapting.

In conclusion, when you're interviewing, always portray yourself as strong and capable. Understand the psychology of the interviewers and frame any potential weaknesses as strengths. And as you progress in your career, remember to keep pushing yourself to innovate and grow, just as successful businesses must do to stay ahead of the curve. This approach will help you not only in securing the job you want but also in maintaining a long, successful legal career.

When attorneys start at large law firms, a significant percentage won't have the necessary skills, work ethic, manageability, or resilience to stay long-term. This results in some attorneys starting strong but gradually declining. Others may last seven or eight years before transitioning into less prestigious roles, while some might make it to partner, only to taper off later. However, there are also attorneys who continue growing well into their 60s and 70s.

In most law firms, you'll observe that many attorneys start strong but eventually begin to plateau or decline. It's crucial to constantly evaluate whether your career trajectory is moving upward or downward. This is a vital consideration for any career move you make. If you’re not continuously growing and moving up, you’re likely setting yourself up for difficulties later in your career.

Just as in business, where companies must continually innovate and grow to stay competitive, attorneys must continually improve and seek opportunities that represent an upward trajectory. When a company’s growth stalls, or it begins to decline, investors lose interest. The same principle applies to your legal career. Law firms want to hire attorneys who appear to be on an upward trajectory, not those who seem to be stagnating or declining.

For example, if you're interviewing for a less prestigious firm than your current one, you must frame your move as a positive step up rather than a step down. You should never appear desperate or as though you’re settling. Law firms are looking for strength, not weakness, in potential hires. If you can convincingly portray each move as part of a strategic upward progression, you'll maintain your attractiveness as a candidate.

In practical terms, here’s how you can frame various moves as upward steps:

Geographic Relocation: If you’re moving to a different area, particularly to a larger market or a region where you have personal ties (e.g., family, spouse), you can present this as a reason for growth. This is seen as a strategic move rather than a step down.
Practice Area Focus: If you're moving to a firm that has a stronger focus on your practice area, you can highlight this specialization as a step forward in your career, even if the firm is smaller or less prestigious.
Branch to Main Office: Moving from a branch office to a main office of a firm can be portrayed as seeking greater opportunities and resources, which are more abundant at the firm's headquarters.
Cultural Fit: If you're transitioning to a smaller firm because you prefer a more collegial environment, or because the firm has a better cultural fit, frame this as a positive shift toward a work environment where you can thrive.
Seeking Specific Opportunities: Whether it’s more responsibility, better client exposure, or working with a specific group of professionals, you need to articulate why this new position offers something your previous role didn’t, and how it aligns with your long-term goals.

When presenting yourself to a potential employer, remember that law firms, like any organization, want to hire winners—people who are on the rise, not those who appear to be on the decline. If you’re moving to a less prestigious firm or taking a role that might be perceived as a step down, you must ensure that it’s framed as a strategic move up. Every transition should be presented as a deliberate, positive step in your career.

Even if you’re considering a smaller or less prestigious firm, it’s essential to make the case that this move is a strategic one for your growth, aligning with your professional goals and offering you something that your previous position could not. Always remember that every move in your career should be presented as part of a broader, upward trajectory, ensuring that you remain an attractive candidate in the eyes of law firms.

To sum up, whether you're changing firms, relocating, or adjusting your practice focus, always frame your career moves as upward steps. This approach not only makes you more appealing to prospective employers but also ensures that you maintain momentum in your career, continually positioning yourself as a lawyer who is progressing, not regressing.

I recently spoke with a candidate who had a fascinating career trajectory. He graduated from Harvard Law School and was working in Silicon Valley in a government role. He received an interview with a law firm that specialized in the same type of governmental work. His explanation for wanting to transition to a law firm, rather than staying in a government position, was well thought out and compelling. He portrayed his move as a strategic career advancement, which resonated with the firm, leading to a job offer within a few months.

This story underscores the importance of how you frame your career moves. When interviewing, it’s crucial to focus on the reasons that make your potential new position a step up. Whether it's because of the firm’s expertise, its clientele, or a better cultural fit, you need to present your move as a progression. Always position yourself as someone who is on an upward trajectory in your career. If you convey that you’re moving up in your career, employers will be more likely to see you as a strong candidate.

When you think about your career as a whole, visualize it as a curve. Many attorneys start their careers on an upward trajectory—working hard, gaining skills, and building their reputation. However, at some point, some begin to plateau or decline. This decline can manifest in various ways: losing a job and struggling to find another, moving to less prestigious positions, or failing to keep up with the demands of the profession. Once you start moving down that curve, it becomes incredibly difficult to reverse course.

To avoid this, you should constantly evaluate whether you are moving up in your career or starting to decline. Every job move, every decision you make, should contribute to your upward progression. If you find yourself in a position where your career is stagnating or declining, it's crucial to take proactive steps to change that trajectory.

For instance, I had a candidate who started at a small firm after a rocky beginning to his career. He didn’t get an offer after his summer associate position, failed the bar exam a couple of times, and then landed a job at a small firm. However, he didn’t let these setbacks define him. He worked hard, developed expertise in a specific practice area, and gradually moved to a slightly larger firm. After several strategic moves, he eventually landed a position at one of the top firms in the world. His career trajectory was a testament to perseverance and strategic planning. He started weak but managed to turn things around by consistently moving up.

This story illustrates that even if you start with challenges, it’s possible to recover and build a strong career. The key is to focus on continuous improvement and avoid the downward trend that many attorneys experience. If you can keep pushing yourself to grow, develop expertise, and align your career moves with your long-term goals, you’ll remain competitive in the legal market.

However, the opposite is also true. If you begin to decline early in your career—whether through poor job choices, lack of focus, or complacency—it can be incredibly hard to recover. Law firms and clients alike respect attorneys who are clearly moving up in their careers. If you give the impression that your career is on a downward trajectory, it can severely limit your opportunities.

I’ve seen this play out many times, particularly in competitive markets like New York City or Los Angeles. If you’re unemployed or have a series of job moves that suggest a downward trend, it’s much harder to get back on track. In cities like New York, being unemployed can make it almost impossible to land a job at a good-sized firm because there are so many other candidates who appear to be on the rise.

To avoid this, it’s essential to focus on upward mobility in every aspect of your career. This includes your ego, how you interact with colleagues, and how you present yourself in the job market. Your job is to do the best work you can, maintain positive relationships, and always look for ways to advance.

Remember, your competition isn’t just other attorneys; it’s other attorneys who are perceived as moving up. Law firms want to hire those who are on the rise because they’re seen as valuable, motivated, and capable of contributing to the firm’s success.

Every move you make should be framed as a step up. Even if you’re moving to a smaller or less prestigious firm, you need to present the move as a strategic one that aligns with your career goals. For example, you might explain that you’re moving to a firm with larger clients, more focused practice areas, or better opportunities for growth. Whatever the case, it’s vital to present the move in a positive light.

In summary, the key to a successful legal career is to continually move up. Avoid the downward trend that many attorneys experience by making strategic career moves, focusing on developing expertise, and maintaining a strong, positive reputation in the industry. If you do this, you’ll not only remain competitive, but you’ll also position yourself for long-term success in the legal profession.

I had an interesting case with a client who started his career at Skadden, one of the most prestigious law firms, but then made a series of unconventional career moves that, unfortunately, did not work in his favor. After starting at Skadden, he completed four consecutive federal judicial clerkships. While a clerkship is typically seen as a prestigious move, doing four of them in a row as a fourth-year attorney is highly unusual and raised questions about his career trajectory.

After these clerkships, the only position he could secure was at an insurance defense firm. Despite having started his career with sophisticated litigation at Skadden, his subsequent experience didn’t align with that high level of work. Even though he later brought in a significant amount of business—around $700,000—it wasn’t in his practice area, so he had to pass it off to other attorneys at the firm. This disjointed career path created a perception that he was moving down in his career, which made it difficult for him to secure interviews for other positions.

This example illustrates the importance of maintaining a clear, upward trajectory in your career. When your resume suggests that you’re moving down rather than up, it becomes much harder to advance. Law firms, like businesses, prefer to invest in people who appear to be on the rise. They want to hire attorneys who are building momentum in their careers, not those who seem to be declining.

To avoid this perception, you need to package yourself in a way that consistently shows growth and progress. This might mean making strategic moves to larger markets, taking on more complex or prestigious work, or developing a niche expertise that sets you apart. Whatever the case, it’s crucial to frame every career move as a step up.

For attorneys in smaller markets who want to move to larger ones, it’s essential to present this move as a natural progression in your career. Perhaps you’re seeking more sophisticated clients, broader opportunities, or a more dynamic legal environment. The key is to make it clear that you’re growing and evolving as a professional.

Let me share a personal story to illustrate this further. When I was in college, I was interviewing for a position and had done extensive research on the company. I was excited to discuss what I had learned, thinking it would impress the interviewers. However, the way I presented this information didn’t go over as well as I’d hoped. This experience taught me that while preparation is important, how you package and present that information is equally critical. It’s not just about knowing the facts but about how you connect them to your narrative of growth and upward momentum.

I also want to touch on a couple of basics that, while straightforward, are essential for interview success. Always plan to arrive at the interview location with plenty of time to spare—ideally, 30 minutes early. This buffer accounts for any unexpected delays, like traffic, and ensures that you’re calm and collected when you arrive.

Lastly, while today’s discussion has covered a lot, there’s much more to delve into when it comes to career strategy and interview preparation. I’ll be addressing some of these additional topics in future webinars, as they require more detailed discussion than we have time for today.

In summary, the key takeaway from today is the importance of maintaining and portraying an upward trajectory in your career. Every move you make, every interaction you have, should contribute to the perception that you’re advancing, not declining. This approach will not only help you secure new opportunities but also ensure long-term success in your legal career.

Question and Answer

Question: How would you suggest converting applications into interviews?

Answer: There are a couple of key strategies that I think are very important when you're applying for a position. A common mistake people make is calling the firm with questions before applying. Instead, it's better to focus on standing out in a more impactful way. One of the most effective methods, which is surprisingly underutilized, is to mail your resume directly to the firm. Print your resume on nice paper, put it in a professional envelope, and mail it along with a cover letter that outlines your reasons for wanting to work there.

The reason this is effective is that most law firms receive hundreds of resumes via email for a single job posting. Sorting through these emails can be tedious, and your resume might get lost in the shuffle. However, if you send a physical copy, it arrives on someone's desk, and they are more likely to open it. This approach can make you stand out from the crowd.

Another important strategy is to reapply. I’ve seen candidates who didn’t get a response from their initial application but were successful after applying a second time. For example, I had a candidate who applied to a firm and didn’t get any response. A month later, they reapplied, and the firm brought them in for an interview and ultimately hired them. Reapplying shows persistence and continued interest, which can work in your favor.

Let me share a couple of stories that illustrate these points. I had a candidate in Hawaii who initially applied to about 20 big firms in Los Angeles and didn’t hear anything back. When I got involved, I mailed his resume to the same firms, and he ended up getting five interviews. Mailing the resume made a significant difference in getting the firms' attention.

Another example involved a candidate who walked into my office to personally hand me her resume. Despite receiving hundreds of emailed applications for the same in-house counsel position, this candidate stood out simply because she made the effort to deliver her resume in person. I ended up hiring her on the spot, even though she didn’t have the strongest qualifications. The lesson here is that doing something to stand out, whether it’s mailing your resume or delivering it in person, can significantly increase your chances of getting an interview.

Question: Is it beneficial to apply to the same firm more than once?

Answer: Absolutely. There’s nothing wrong with applying more than once, especially if you believe the firm is a good fit for your skills and experience. Reapplying can actually demonstrate your continued interest and persistence, which many firms appreciate. Timing can also be a critical factor—your first application might not have caught their attention, but a second or third application could reach them when they’re more urgently looking to fill the position.

For example, I had a job opening for an in-house counsel role, and I was overwhelmed with email applications. However, one candidate came to my office in person to hand me her resume. Her persistence and direct approach impressed me, and I hired her immediately. This wouldn’t have happened if she had just sent another email. It’s important to remember that sometimes timing and the method of application can make all the difference.

Question: What are some other tips for standing out during the application process?

Answer: Aside from mailing your resume or reapplying, another tip is to personalize your cover letter by specifically addressing why you want to work at that particular firm. Tailor your application to the firm’s culture, values, and the specific role you’re applying for. Also, if possible, try to make a personal connection, whether by mentioning a referral or by showing your knowledge of the firm’s recent work.

Another tactic is to follow up after applying. If you don’t hear back, it’s perfectly acceptable to send a polite follow-up email or make a call to check on the status of your application. This shows that you are serious about the position and are willing to take the initiative.

These strategies, when combined, can greatly increase your chances of getting an interview and ultimately landing the job.

Question: You spoke about the importance of aligning your responses with the firm's needs. How should I tailor my answers when I interview with law firms that have different practices and cultures? What should I focus on during the interview process to help me customize my responses on the spot?

Answer: The most important thing during the interview is to show that you're there because you're trying to move up and that you're genuinely interested in the firm as a better fit for what you want to do. Whether it’s about the type of work they do, the size of their clients, or their culture, you need to make the firm feel like it's a perfect fit for you. You can do this by researching the firm beforehand and by listening closely during the interview so that you can tailor your responses to what the firm values most. It’s crucial to identify what sets the firm apart—whether it’s their specific practice area, their client base, or their firm culture—and align your answers to show that these are exactly what you’re looking for.

Question: How do I mentally prepare for an interview to reduce the impact of nervousness? Are there specific strategies or practices, such as visualization and breathing exercises, that have been particularly effective for attorneys who need to come across as strong in interviews?

Answer: That’s a great question. Nervousness is very common in interviews, and there are several strategies that can help. Breathing exercises and meditation can be very effective in calming your nerves. Another technique I’ve heard that works well is to imagine the people you’re speaking with as children instead of big, powerful partners. This can make the whole process feel less intimidating and more manageable.

If your nervousness is overwhelming, it might be worth talking to a doctor who can help with anxiety. But one piece of advice I often give is to be honest about your nervousness during the interview. Saying something like, “I’m nervous because I really want this job,” can actually work in your favor. It shows that you care and are genuinely invested in the opportunity. In my experience, when candidates are honest about their nervousness, it often helps them connect with the interviewers, and it can even make you more memorable.

Question: In your experience, what are the most common reasons that law firms cite for not hiring a candidate, even if they seem well-qualified on paper? Are there particular traits or behaviors during the interview that could be more damaging to a candidate's prospects than gaps in experience?

Answer: The most common reason firms decide not to hire someone, even if they look good on paper, is a lack of enthusiasm. When candidates come into an interview and don’t express a clear desire to work at the firm, it raises red flags. Law firms want to hire people who are excited about the opportunity, who have done their homework, and who genuinely want the job.

Another big mistake is not connecting with the interviewers or failing to make them feel important. Partners want to feel respected and valued, and they want to know that you’re going to work hard and be eager to contribute. If you don’t make that connection, if you don’t show that you’re eager and ready to jump in, the firm is likely to pass on you.

I remember a candidate from a couple of decades ago who just didn’t have any personality or enthusiasm. He didn’t seem to care about where he worked, and his handshake was weak. He expected things to happen for him without putting in the effort, and firms picked up on that. They didn’t want to hire someone who wasn’t going to be proactive or enthusiastic about the work.

So, the key is to show that you really want the job, that you’re excited about the opportunity, and that you’re ready to contribute. Enthusiasm and a genuine interest in the firm can make a huge difference in how you’re perceived during an interview.

These are great questions, and I really appreciate everyone asking them. If you have more questions, please feel free to ask—I’m here to help! And just as a note, while we covered a lot today, I’ll be addressing additional issues in our next webinar.

Question: You mentioned that some law firms may have biases against certain types of candidates, such as those with nontraditional backgrounds like solo practitioners. How can a candidate with a nontraditional background position themselves to counteract these biases?

Answer: I've done several presentations on this topic, especially concerning solo practitioners and those from in-house positions. Both types of candidates can be employable, and they can definitely get jobs. The key is how you frame your experience. For example, if you’re in-house, the best way to get a position in a law firm is to present yourself as an expert in a specific area, like municipal law, environmental law, or some other niche that law firms might not easily find elsewhere. When you can frame your experience as highly specialized, it becomes a valuable asset.

The same principle applies to solo practitioners. I've had solo practitioners who specialized in one type of law that was difficult for law firms to find, and they secured positions as a result. The most important thing you can do is focus your experience on one area. One common mistake I see from in-house attorneys and solo practitioners is listing a wide range of experiences, thinking it makes them more marketable. But actually, it’s the opposite. Law firms are looking for experts. If you’re a litigator, you should focus on that. If you’re a real estate lawyer, stick to that. Clients pay for expertise, and law firms want to see that you’re focused.

So, when you’re preparing your resume, you don’t need to mention every single thing you’ve worked on. Instead, highlight your experience in one specific area that aligns with the job you’re applying for. This focus will make you much more marketable.

Question: In cases where an attorney receives feedback that they were not hired due to perceived lack of firm commitment or cultural fit, what steps can they take to address this in future interviews and to stress their commitment?

Answer: Often, when firms reject candidates, they provide vague reasons like lack of firm commitment or poor cultural fit. These reasons can be tricky to navigate. For firm commitment, it’s essential to demonstrate in your interviews that you’re dedicated to the job and the firm. This might mean emphasizing your enthusiasm for the specific type of work they do, talking about how you see yourself growing with the firm, or mentioning your long-term career goals and how they align with the firm’s trajectory.

However, cultural fit is a bit different. Every firm has its own culture, and sometimes, no matter what you do, you might not fit into that culture. Culture can be based on a variety of factors—politics, social environment, work style, etc. For example, I’ve come across firms that have very specific cultural dynamics, whether it’s a strong preference for certain social backgrounds or even political leanings. These are not things you can easily change about yourself, nor should you try to.

If you’re told that you weren’t a good cultural fit, it’s often just a matter of mismatched environments, and it might not be something you can—or should—try to fix. What you can do is make sure you’re applying to firms where you genuinely feel you could be a good fit, and where your background, personality, and values align with the firm’s culture. This way, you’re more likely to find a place where you can thrive.

But remember, commitment is something you can actively demonstrate and improve upon in your interviews, while cultural fit might be more about finding the right match.

Question: When applying to law firms, how and when do you suggest researching salary ranges and preparing for negotiation?

Answer: When you're applying to a law firm, it's essential to wait until you get an offer before bringing up salary discussions. The focus during the interview process should be on demonstrating why you’re the best fit for the firm, rather than sidetracking the conversation with salary concerns. Once you have an offer, you can start thinking about negotiations.

In terms of research, it's crucial to understand that law firms typically have set salary ranges based on your class year or experience level. They won't offer you more than what they are paying others at the same level, so your negotiation will often be within those established ranges. If you’re at a firm where you have employment stability, you can tell the prospective firm what you’re currently making and see if they can match or exceed that.

Smaller firms often have less flexibility in salary negotiations because they typically work with clients who don’t pay as much, meaning the firm’s revenue might be more limited. In those cases, the firm might not be able to offer a significantly higher salary than what you're currently making, unless they see a unique value in your experience that they are willing to pay for.

If you’re a new attorney and facing challenges in your current job, such as instability or a potential loss of your position, your focus during negotiations should be more on securing a stable position rather than pushing too hard on salary, especially if the firm’s salary offer is reasonable within the market.

Question: I recently lost a training contract for failing the bar exam. How do I make it look like I'm not on a downward trajectory during interviews?

Answer: First of all, it’s important to recognize that failing the bar exam is not uncommon, and many successful attorneys have faced the same challenge. People from the best law schools fail the bar exam, and it doesn’t necessarily reflect on your capabilities as a lawyer. For example, Kamala Harris, who is now the Vice President of the United States, failed the bar exam on her first try.

When you’re in an interview, you should be upfront about failing the bar exam. You can simply state that you didn’t pass the first time but are determined to pass on your next attempt. A lot of people fail for various reasons, whether it’s due to not having enough time to study or other distractions, and it’s not something that should hold you back in the long run.

The key is to frame this setback as a temporary hurdle rather than a sign of decline. Mention that you’re committed to retaking and passing the bar, and emphasize your dedication to your legal career. It’s also worth noting that while failing the bar may require you to start at a smaller firm initially, it’s not the end of the road. You can still build a successful career by starting in a smaller firm, gaining experience, and then moving upwards from there.

Failing the bar exam is not a career-ending event. Many candidates I’ve worked with who failed the bar exam have gone on to have successful legal careers, including at top firms. It’s all about how you handle the situation and your determination to overcome it.

Question: What are the prospects for a 65-year-old attorney who wants to enter into a law firm?

Answer: There are definitely opportunities for a 65-year-old attorney to enter into a law firm, although the path may be more challenging. I’ve placed attorneys in legal roles well into their eighties, so it's not impossible at all. Typically, older attorneys might find positions with smaller firms or solo practitioners who are more flexible and might need experienced hands. These firms are often more willing to take a chance on someone who brings a wealth of experience, even if they're later in their career.

However, larger law firms often have mandatory retirement policies around 60 or 65, primarily because they believe older attorneys might not have the same drive as their younger counterparts or because they want to create space for younger partners to move up. Also, some older attorneys struggle with taking orders from younger colleagues, which can make it harder to fit into the culture of a firm.

If you’re looking to join a law firm at this stage in your career, I’d recommend targeting smaller firms or solo practitioners. You might also consider starting your own practice. Opening your own practice is something that many attorneys do successfully at various stages in their careers. I've seen attorneys from top law firms shift gears completely to start their own practices in areas like family law, trusts and estates, or other niches where they can leverage their expertise and experience. There are resources and membership sites that can help you get cases and build your practice, and this can be a very fulfilling option if you're willing to take that entrepreneurial step.

Question: I’m in the market for a law firm position but don’t have prior law firm experience. I have 10 years of relevant experience in financial services and legal compliance. How do I work with your team to source opportunities? I’ve uploaded my resume to your portal and applied for roles, but I’m wondering if I should take additional action.

Answer: Transitioning into a law firm without prior law firm experience, especially after 10 years in a different field, can be quite challenging. Recruiters often face limitations in placing candidates who don't have traditional law firm experience, particularly if you've never worked in a law firm before. Law firms look for specific types of experience, and if you’ve spent a decade outside of that environment, it can be difficult to make that leap.

For example, working at a firm like Baker McKenzie for 10 years provides you with a certain level of credibility and experience that is well understood within the legal community. Everyone knows what it means to have worked at a firm like that, and it’s easier for firms to understand the value you bring. However, when you’ve been working in-house or in a non-law firm role, that kind of credibility and the specific legal training that comes with law firm experience might be missing.

In-house roles are often very different from law firm roles, and the work done in-house is typically more varied and less specialized than what you’d find in a law firm. Additionally, after 10 years in a different field, your seniority could be a concern for law firms. Many firms might not be willing to bring in someone with your level of seniority because it would require them to offer you a higher billing rate, which clients might not be willing to pay, especially if they can get the same work done by a partner or a more established associate.

My advice to you would be to tailor your resume to match exactly what law firms are looking for. Emphasize any specialized skills or experience that would be attractive to a law firm's clients. If you’re trying to transition, smaller firms might be more open to bringing in someone with your experience, especially if they have clients who need your specific expertise. It’s important to find a firm that has a genuine need for what you bring to the table, and to present yourself as a strong fit for that need.

Billing rates are another crucial factor to consider. As attorneys gain more experience, their billing rates increase, and clients often prefer to have higher billing rate work done by partners rather than senior associates or someone new to the firm. This dynamic makes it difficult for senior attorneys, especially those transitioning from in-house, to find a place in a traditional law firm structure.

If you’re set on making this transition, consider targeting smaller firms where your experience might be more valued, or firms that have clients specifically needing your expertise. It’s a challenging path, but with the right approach, it’s possible to find a good fit.

Question: I've attended a lot of these webinars and it's good to see you. I take thorough notes sometimes, but after the interview, I can’t find the recordings on the BCG website. What am I doing wrong?

Answer: The recordings are typically made available after the webinar, but they aren’t posted immediately. They need to be edited first, which usually takes about four or five days. They should be available on the BCG Attorney Search site afterward. I’ll look into it for you to make sure everything is in place, but that’s generally how it works.

Question: You mentioned that preparation is key to understanding the culture of a firm before an interview. What specific strategies do you recommend for assessing internal dynamics, beyond the publicly available materials? Are there particular questions I should ask during the interview that will help reveal more about the work environment?

Answer: I’d advise against asking too many probing questions about culture during the interview itself, as it could signal doubts or create the impression that you’re unsure about the firm. Instead, focus on getting to the next step in the interview process. Once you’ve received an offer, that’s the time to ask more specific questions about the work environment.

During the interview, it’s best to pick up on cues about the culture by observing the people you meet, their interactions, and the overall atmosphere. You might get a better sense of things during lunches or second-round interviews. After receiving an offer, you can ask questions more freely as the firm will be more open to providing information since they’re interested in hiring you.

Question: You touched on the importance of asking insightful questions at the end of the interview. Can you suggest specific questions that not only demonstrate genuine interest but also provide valuable insights into the firm's expectations for the role?

Answer: The best questions are those that show you’re eager to succeed and contribute to the firm. For example, you could ask, “What does success look like in this role?” or “What are the most important goals for someone in this position during the first 60 or 90 days?” These types of questions demonstrate that you’re focused on doing a good job and are already thinking about how to meet the firm’s expectations.

It’s important to avoid questions that could raise doubts about your interest or fit, such as those about the firm’s culture or work environment. Focus on questions that relate directly to your performance and how you can excel in the role.

Question: How would you recommend highlighting relevant experience during an interview, especially when transitioning from a nontraditional role back to a law firm environment?

Answer: When transitioning from a nontraditional role back to a law firm, it’s crucial to frame your experience in a way that aligns with what a law firm is looking for. Law firms are often concerned that candidates who left the law firm environment might do so again, so you need to reassure them that you’re committed to returning to firm life.

You should present your past experience as closely aligned with the work you would have done in a law firm. Focus on any specialized knowledge or skills you’ve developed that are directly applicable to the role you’re applying for. Law firms value focus and expertise in specific practice areas, so your experience should be framed to highlight that you’ve maintained or developed expertise in a relevant area.

Question: If I don’t already have a book of business or only have a small one, how can I express in the interview that I will bring more business to the firm?

Answer: This is a common challenge. If you don’t have a significant book of business, you can still sell your potential by discussing how the firm’s platform will help you grow your business. For example, you might say, “I believe that with the firm’s strong brand and resources, I could attract more clients who are looking for the breadth of services that a larger firm offers.”

You could also discuss how you plan to leverage the firm’s existing client base to cross-sell your services. While business plans can be helpful, they’re not always the most effective tool. What often works better is demonstrating that you understand how the firm’s platform can amplify your business development efforts.

Question: How can I access the recordings of these webinars, and what should I do if I can’t find them?

Answer: The recordings should be available a few days after the webinar. They go through an editing process before being posted, which usually takes around four or five days. If you still have trouble finding them, I’d recommend checking back on the BCG Attorney Search website or reaching out to the support team for assistance.

Question: What should I do if I don’t already have a book of business or have a small one, and I want to convince a firm that I can bring in more business?

Answer: If you don’t have a significant book of business, you can still make a compelling case by emphasizing how the firm’s platform can help you grow your client base. For instance, you could mention how the firm’s reputation, resources, and cross-selling opportunities would enable you to attract more clients. It’s also effective to discuss how you plan to leverage the firm’s existing relationships to build your business.

Remember, firms are often interested in candidates who understand how to utilize the firm’s strengths to develop new business.

Thank you all for participating today and for your thoughtful questions. I’ll make sure to email everyone a copy of the book and the interview preparation guide, which includes additional resources that can help you in your job search. Next week, I’ll go over common questions and answers that law firms ask in interviews, which should be very helpful as well. Thanks again, and I look forward to seeing you next week!

About Harrison Barnes

Harrison Barnes is a prominent figure in the legal placement industry, known for his expertise in attorney placements and his extensive knowledge of the legal profession.

With over 25 years of experience, he has established himself as a leading voice in the field and has helped thousands of lawyers and law students find their ideal career paths.

Barnes is a former federal law clerk and associate at Quinn Emanuel and a graduate of the University of Chicago College and the University of Virginia Law School. He was a Rhodes Scholar Finalist at the University of Chicago and a member of the University of Virginia Law Review. Early in his legal career, he enrolled in Stanford Business School but dropped out because he missed legal recruiting too much.

Barnes' approach to the legal industry is rooted in his commitment to helping lawyers achieve their full potential. He believes that the key to success in the legal profession is to be proactive, persistent, and disciplined in one's approach to work and life. He encourages lawyers to take ownership of their careers and to focus on developing their skills and expertise in a way that aligns with their passions and interests.

One of how Barnes provides support to lawyers is through his writing. On his blog, HarrisonBarnes.com, and BCGSearch.com, he regularly shares his insights and advice on a range of topics related to the legal profession. Through his writing, he aims to empower lawyers to control their careers and make informed decisions about their professional development.

One of Barnes's fundamental philosophies in his writing is the importance of networking. He believes that networking is a critical component of career success and that it is essential for lawyers to establish relationships with others in their field. He encourages lawyers to attend events, join organizations, and connect with others in the legal community to build their professional networks.

Another central theme in Barnes' writing is the importance of personal and professional development. He believes that lawyers should continuously strive to improve themselves and develop their skills to succeed in their careers. He encourages lawyers to pursue ongoing education and training actively, read widely, and seek new opportunities for growth and development.

In addition to his work in the legal industry, Barnes is also a fitness and lifestyle enthusiast. He sees fitness and wellness as integral to his personal and professional development and encourages others to adopt a similar mindset. He starts his day at 4:00 am and dedicates several daily hours to running, weightlifting, and pursuing spiritual disciplines.

Finally, Barnes is a strong advocate for community service and giving back. He volunteers for the University of Chicago, where he is the former area chair of Los Angeles for the University of Chicago Admissions Office. He also serves as the President of the Young Presidents Organization's Century City Los Angeles Chapter, where he works to support and connect young business leaders.

In conclusion, Harrison Barnes is a visionary legal industry leader committed to helping lawyers achieve their full potential. Through his work at BCG Attorney Search, writing, and community involvement, he empowers lawyers to take control of their careers, develop their skills continuously, and lead fulfilling and successful lives. His philosophy of being proactive, persistent, and disciplined, combined with his focus on personal and professional development, makes him a valuable resource for anyone looking to succeed in the legal profession.

About BCG Attorney Search

BCG Attorney Search matches attorneys and law firms with unparalleled expertise and drive, while achieving results. Known globally for its success in locating and placing attorneys in law firms of all sizes, BCG Attorney Search has placed thousands of attorneys in law firms in thousands of different law firms around the country. Unlike other legal placement firms, BCG Attorney Search brings massive resources of over 150 employees to its placement efforts locating positions and opportunities its competitors simply cannot. Every legal recruiter at BCG Attorney Search is a former successful attorney who attended a top law school, worked in top law firms and brought massive drive and commitment to their work. BCG Attorney Search legal recruiters take your legal career seriously and understand attorneys. For more information, please visit www.BCGSearch.com.

Harrison Barnes does a weekly free webinar with live Q&A for attorneys and law students each Wednesday at 10:00 am PST. You can attend anonymously and ask questions about your career, this article, or any other legal career-related topics. You can sign up for the weekly webinar here: Register on Zoom

Harrison also does a weekly free webinar with live Q&A for law firms, companies, and others who hire attorneys each Wednesday at 10:00 am PST. You can sign up for the weekly webinar here: Register on Zoom

You can browse a list of past webinars here: Webinar Replays

You can also listen to Harrison Barnes Podcasts here: Attorney Career Advice Podcasts

You can also read Harrison Barnes' articles and books here: Harrison's Perspectives

Harrison Barnes is the legal profession's mentor and may be the only person in your legal career who will tell you why you are not reaching your full potential and what you really need to do to grow as an attorney--regardless of how much it hurts. If you prefer truth to stagnation, growth to comfort, and actionable ideas instead of fluffy concepts, you and Harrison will get along just fine. If, however, you want to stay where you are, talk about your past successes, and feel comfortable, Harrison is not for you.

Truly great mentors are like parents, doctors, therapists, spiritual figures, and others because in order to help you they need to expose you to pain and expose your weaknesses. But suppose you act on the advice and pain created by a mentor. In that case, you will become better: a better attorney, better employees, a better boss, know where you are going, and appreciate where you have been--you will hopefully also become a happier and better person. As you learn from Harrison, he hopes he will become your mentor.

To read more career and life advice articles visit Harrison's personal blog.

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