Woods Oviatt Gilman LLP

Advice to law firm management: To the toxic bunch: learn how to communicate and listen like adults. You're not always right. Don't ever yell or curse at your staff or associates. Instead, model the behavior that professionals should possess. Give proper credit and recognition to those doing the difficult work too. Pay bonuses to your staff and associates, especially when your associates deliver positive results after others could not.

To those that are great to work with: never change. You all make the firm a much better place!

Pros: The firm makes significant efforts to build positive relationships and recruit top talents. Many employees have been with the firm for years or decades and will gladly take the time to help you with tasks and teach you important skills. The majority of attorneys, including Partners, are genuinely invested in your long-term growth and success. 99% of all staff are pleasant to work with and will go above and beyond to help you or give you unique opportunities to grow. As a firm, they continously strive to pour the necessary resources and training you need to thrive. You are exposed to a variety of caseloads and opportunities that keep you engaged and sharp. For most, it is a great place to build a longterm and successful career, including the practical skills you need to succeed in this profession.

Cons: Unfortunately, it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the rest of the bunch. Be prepared for blatant disrespect, including being yelled or cursed at. You will also encounter routine leadership arrogance and Partners who will be quick to throw you under the bus for their mistakes; they are marked by the false belief that their knowledge and expertise surpasses those of the staff and associates that are actively engaged in performing the work and tasks. They will gladly take a backseat most of the time but take the driver's seat on a car when it's self-serving. Yet, they will depend on you to do the difficult tasks they can't while causing you to doubt yourself. That kind of behavior is toxic and will eat away at your confidence. You can never say "no" or anything that could be misconstrued as a "no." Your time away will not be respected.

Partners to Avoid and Why: Mentioning them will only feed into their already fragile egos. They know who they are.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Arrange a more flexible work environment. Increase pay and actually invest in training your attorneys.

Pros: For being in such a small market, you do have access to pretty big clients and matters. If you are looking to build a resume, this is a really good place to do it. Plenty of attorneys from the firm have gone on to bigger places. It is not a difficult place to get hired. Many of the attorneys come from lower-tier level law schools.

Cons: Woods definitely looks at itself as a premier law firm and it simply isn't. They start first-year Attorneys at under $110,000 a year, and they don't give them a choice in what department they get placed. However, the firm has not embraced the new decade. You don't have a chance to work remotely and you are expected to be in the office every day. It isn't great from the mental health perspective.

Partners to Avoid and Why: Don't trust anyone at the firm .

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Invest a little bit more in your associates. Modernize the firm and work culture. Understand that you aren't really paying your associates much.

Pros: The firm carries some prestige in the local area. People are nice. The work is a complex for a MERTAS firm.

Cons: The salary is quite low, the firm doesn't let you work from the office of your choosing, there's no real opportunities to work remotely, and I don't really think the firm is invested in the development of its associates.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Be transparent and increase the pay.

Pros: Coworkers are friendly.

Cons: Many have touched on these issues. They are all pretty true. The firm acts like their starting salary is great, IN 2024. There's no firm transparency. Summers have had to go months without knowing the department they are starting in.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: The reason people mention "Cravath" is because a lot of young attorneys believe that you should "work your wage" which essentially means that the quality of work product you put out directly correlates with your salary. So if you are only going to pay someone $110k, You cannot expect the work product or commitment of somebody who gets paid $270k.

Pros: Most of my fellow associates are cool people and we do put on a nice show for the summer associates. It has been a platform for some people to go to Big Law

Cons: Management is stuck in the Upstate New York mindset. It's absolutely ridiculous that they start associates at sub $110,000. A lot of people are fake. They will say one thing to your face but sometimes different behind your back.

I know other people have touched on it, but the biggest thing is that it is not while equipped to deal with the new generation of lawyers.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: If you want to just fit in with the fray, you're doing it. As current employee, I believe it would be a mistake to just ignore these other complaints. The firm does have to modernize, and it can't hide behind being an Upstate firm. The legal world is moving in another direction.

Pros: There is a lot of pride among the partners and some associates. People generally aim to be collegial.

Cons: I don't think it is fair for people to sum up the bad reviews as "substandard associates" being disgruntled. A couple of the people who are no longer with us were pretty good and knowledgeable.

This firm is not a modern firm. A lot of the people who will defend it just haven't been exposed to how national firms do things. It is pretty draconian to expect people to be in the office at a certain time and to not offer extensive work from home packages. That's not where the rest of the country is. And it shouldn't be an excuse that it's in line with the rest of Upstate New York. The firm should seek to rise above that. It doesn't have the resources that many firms have and that makes the job of an associate more difficult. These are things that national candidates should be aware of when they interview here.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Pros: Reputable firm within WNY

Cons: They expect too much for what they pay. Not very transparent. Not willing to invest in associates. The pay is in line with WNY but doesn't exceed it.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Continue to do what you're doing now, and disregard most of the reviews on this page. Really??? "Draconian expectations that employees be at their desk by 9:00"??? "They don't buy us snacks"??? (PS There is food available in the break rooms about three times a week.) "A lot to expect for less than $200,00"??? "They don't track the Cravath scale"??? This stuff is patently ridiculous to any lawyer who has practiced Upstate for more than 3 years.

Pros: Very sophisticated work, generous pay and benefits, collegial environment.

Cons: If demanding excellence in legal work is a con, Woods Oviatt will unabashedly confess that it demands excellence in legal work.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Pros: Woods Oviatt Gilman LLP stands out for its exceptional team, fostering a culture defined by professionalism and camaraderie. The standard of work upheld here is consistently outstanding, complemented by the esteemed clientele we have the privilege to serve. My tenure with this esteemed firm has been marked by genuine satisfaction and a deep appreciation for the enriching experiences it offers.

Current or former employee?: Former Employee

Last Year at Employer: 2022

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Invest in your associates financially and emotionally. Have realistic expectations and give your associates more support and growth opportunities. Join the decade.

Pros: Some partners are nice to work for.

Cons: There are too many to list. I have very high expectations for relatively low pay. They have made it very difficult to work from home, and they have Draconian expectations, such as wanting attorneys in the office at 9:00 on the dot. Attorneys are not adequately supported by staff to assist in the drafting and proofreading process. Depending on the partner, be prepared to be nitpicked on every comma, hyphen, and indent. They will bring on an attorney and push them out the door within five or six months.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: The culture really needs to improve. If the firm is going to join the elite mid-sized firms, it's going to have to conduct itself is one. You cannot treat attorneys like pledges or cattle. The turnover rate has to improve. Sometimes it takes someone two or three years to develop. If you are not going to have a structured mentorship program, you cannot expect attorneys to just develop on their own.

Pros: For being in such a small market, attorneys are able to get hands-on experience on complex matters that they wouldn't otherwise. People are friendly and genuinely interested in helping out. Probably one of the most collegial environments that I have been in (management excluded).

Cons: The firm's very top-heavy, so associates don't have a lot of leverage. This is one of the few firms in the country that does not allow at least a hybrid work schedule. It is certainly a throwback to the 1980s with the expectation that you are at your desk at a certain time and that you "pay your dues." The firm is pretty fickle; one minute, they are parading around a new attorney or singing the praises of an established attorney, and the next minute, that attorney is either gone without explanation, or you find out they're pushing them out. I have worked in big law, and even they had more patience when it came to the development of attorneys and were more transparent about where people stood with the firm. there is no formal training or mentorship program.

Partners to Avoid and Why: There are a few. Any of the partners who have been there for 20 or 30 years are best to avoid.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Move to a firm-wide hybrid policy, pay your attorneys more, and adapt to the younger attorney. Not doing this will cause the firm to lose out on potentially great attorneys who don't want to play old-school politics. Hire more support. At least double the number of legal administrators. A lot of firms provide food daily, your attorneys shouldn't have to pay for their own snacks.

Pros: Everyone at the firm is super friendly, and the hours are not unbearable. Although the firm is not on par with a lot of the Am Law firms in terms of events, the firm tries to put on events with food.

Cons: There's no other way to put it: the compensation is bad. You will not be paid like an attorney. Depending on the partner you work for, you may or may not be allowed to work from home. Most Partners want you in the office because of a lack of trust. There's very much this idea that "if I had to walk up a hill barefoot in the snow, you should too." That attitude just isn't going to work with young attorneys today. As attorneys, we don't have a lot of support. We don't have a proofreading or doc review department, so I was often billing for administrative work. We also have to pay for snacks, which shows that the firm is a little cheap.

Current or former employee?: Former Employee

Last Year at Employer: 2022

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Like many others have said, increase salary. Starting salary should at least be $50,000 higher. Speed up the modernization of the firm. There should be a proofreading department, there should be a more formal training process, and there should be more transparency throughout the year.

Pros: There are some Partners who are absolutely wonderful to work with. People are kind.

Cons: First, the workload can be intense, especially given what we are paid. I know that firms don't want to hear this, but most attorneys are considering how much they are paid before determining how much effort to give an assignment. Second, as attorneys, we do not have enough support. We don't have documents or a proofreading department. Despite the fact that we don't have one of those, a lot of Partners expect near perfection, which isn't realistic when you don't have those departments. Third, I do not feel like the firm cares about me personally. That specifically shows how we are trained. Most partners are going to try to train you by giving you red lines and trying to have you figure it out. They aren't going to go through an assignment with you in real-time and truly invest in your growth.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Be realistic; Woods Oviatt Gilman is not Kirkland; you cannot expect the same level of work product that they or other Vault firms expect. Develop uniform policies on working from home and quality of training. Also, don't be afraid to take a stand on important issues. If a bunch of innocent Israelis are being slaughtered, it is okay to come out and condemn those attacks and make the Jewish members of the firm feel supported. I plan on staying at the firm because my family is here but if that were to change, there's not really an incentive for me to stay.

Pros: In my group, things are a pretty laid back and everyone is collegial and kind. Some partners are willing to work with you and help you understand the material.

Cons: The firm is very old school, as others have mentioned. It tries not to engage in the public discourse, even when it's really called for. As a practicing member of Judaism, I've been disappointed by the firm's response to recent developments in Israel. The firm hasn't issued a public statement or really done anything to make us feel comfortable or welcome at the firm. I cannot directly speak to what it's like to work in other practice groups, but from speaking to colleagues, some groups seem to be very overwhelmed. The firm is very fragmented. One's experience is going to vary significantly depending on the department you are working under. Some partners are cool with their Associates working from home, but the majority of them are not. Quite a few partners at the firm are what I would define as unrealistic perfectionists. They expect Cravath or Skadden quality work without the pay.

Current or former employee?: Current Employee

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Invest in your young associates. Give them at least a couple of years to develop and lower your expectations a few.

Pros: The work environment is very collegial and you will usually know where you stand with management. If you are in the corporate practice, you are going to be afforded the opportunity to work on very large deals. Real Estate is very laid back.

Cons: Management is very two-faced. 1 minute, they will be singing an associate's praises, and the next minute, they will be gone. Deadlines are not always realistic. The same Partners who will show up regularly past 9:00 a.m. are the same ones who will complain about the associates who do the same exact thing. The firm is really stuck in the 1980s. The firm primarily cares about quality of work and overall commitment

Current or former employee?: Former Employee

Last Year at Employer: 2021

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Take time to invest in your associates. Have a structured and transparent review process. Realistic expectations are key; if you want top-of-the-line work and talent, pay your associates more. Adjust to the times. Not having a firm-wide hybrid policy is really going to make retention difficult. Be patient; everyone learns differently.

Pros: People are friendly and everybody gets their own office.

Cons: There are so many. WFH is not an option. Some partners get all bent out of shape about associates not coming into the office by 9, despite the fact that they themselves often don't come in until noon. The firm likes to think of itself as a top-tier firm despite the fact that it pays well under Cravath. Essentially, come and say expect Cravath quality work, commitment, and recognition without the pay, training, or prestige. The types of feedback you get various partner by partner and it's not very transparent

Partners to Avoid and Why: IYKYK

Current or former employee?: Former Employee

Last Year at Employer: 2023

Job type: Full time

Advice to law firm management: Ease up. When I was there, it felt like Guantanamo. Increase pay a little bit more and be open to ideas from your Associates.

Pros: You get valuable experience on pretty large deals for important clients. This makes you a pretty attractive candidate for AmLaw firms. People at the firm are relatively friendly, for the most part, and firm politics are out in the open.

Cons: The firm is pretty archaic. You are expected to be in the office five days a week, and the firm has a stringent dress code. Not only does the firm pay so far below Cravath, but it also pays significantly less than midsized law firms in other markets.

Partners to Avoid and Why: If you know, you know

Current or former employee?: Former Employee

Last Year at Employer: 2022

Job type: Full time

Pros: 5.0 Current EmployeeGreat FirmParalegal in Rochester, NY ProsI have worked at Woods for 7 years and they are a well organized firmConsI don't have any cons

Current or former employee?: Former Employee

Last Year at Employer: 2020

Job type: Full time

Pros: 5.0 Current Employee, more than 1 yearReally great place to workAttorney in Rochester, NY ProsGreat people, great culture, great work and clients. Love working here!ConsThere really aren't any cons

Current or former employee?: Former Employee

Last Year at Employer: 2021

Job type: Full time