Top 32 Reasons Attorneys Lose Their Jobs Inside of Law Firms

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2022.04.06 Top 32 Reasons Attorneys Lose Their Jobs Inside of Law Firms
Harrison:[00:00:00] Okay, so this is a kind of a fun topic. It's a long topic. I remember when I started, when I first worked on this, who was actually the top 10 reasons or something, with those type of articles. And and then it turned into, 15, and then it was like 20, and then it was 25 and it just kept getting longer and longer.
And finally I stopped at 32 because it just, it got kinda my wielding, but this is an important topic. I think one of the things that everyone should understand is at some point most people will lose their jobs. Almost everyone loses positions inside of employers, at least once in their career.
It could be either through some fault of your own. Sometimes it happens for reasons that really have nothing to do with you. And you can take pride in that, but it is right now we're in a very good economy where, there tends to be a lot more demand for people then a lot of people are not getting fired.
More employees are firing employers and the other way around, but it most points in time. [00:01:00] It's actually, difficult to keep your position inside of employers. So people will often lose jobs and it's important to understand the reasons that this can happen.
I've encountered of course, because my job, I encounter people that have thought that lose their jobs all the time. And and because of that it's important, I think, to be aware that you lose jobs and you need to prepare yourself for that.
You need to be willing to see the warning signs of things that could happen, that could, cause you to lose a job. And and you can also need to understand a lot of the dangers and things that the kind of exists.
The point of this kind of whole discussion today is to talk about a lot of the reasons people lose jobs and really help you prepare and being in a position where you're not going to lose jobs.
And and the point is that you really don't want to lose a job if you can help it. So when it looks like you may lose a job, or there's kind of warning signs of things that may have happened then you definitely why not take the toys, the choices and make the choices you can make to avoid it.
And the problem with law firms is squat [00:02:00] firms are very difficult place to, to keep jobs. And the reason is because they have clients and if the work dries up, then then you become an expense. If you're in a practice group, but a few attorneys and someone decides they don't like you you can lose your job.
Or if someone leaves that was giving you work, you could lose your job. There's all sorts of things that are beyond your control. Certain people will be advanced a partner and other people won't there's certain people that the law firm wants to pants and other people that they don't.
Law firms are very difficult places to keep jobs and they all are and have really always been. And so you need to make sure you're doing what you can to make sure you're keeping your job. And that's what I'm going to go into. I'm going to show you how to, be a valuable employee if I can, and a member of the farm and also and to talk to you a little bit about how to, what to do to avoid it.
And the reason that this is such an important topic, Is that if you lose your job and you're unemployed, then the perception is that among other law firms of the same caliber, that there's a big risk of hiring you. And and so instead [00:03:00] of hiring you though, they tend to want to hire someone who's employed.
And and it's always been that way. So if you're looking for a job and you're unemployed and you've been fired the issue is it's not so much that that other people haven't made mistakes. It's just that you're probably competing with other people for jobs that haven't lost their jobs.
And because of that there's less stress associated with people that haven't lost her job and her gainfully employed than there are the people that have lost their jobs. And most attorneys, if you lose your job, especially in the most prestigious law firms are going to have a very difficult time finding another one, just because there's a lot of competition for those same jobs.
And and the gap in your resume suggest many times that but there's something wrong with you. Many times it may just be that you don't do good work. It may be that you're not you're, you can't follow instruction that you make bad mistakes, that you're you have substance abuse problems that you have authority issues that you're, who knows, and we'll talk a lot about that in this webinar, but if you lose your job, you may end up going in house.
You may end up being a contract [00:04:00] attorney. You may have to work for the government, which isn't a bad thing or work as a solo practitioner or even other roles outside of the law. And and a lot of these roles don't offer at the same prestige or the access the same level of work. So a lot of law firms.
And a lot of attorneys, for example, that lose jobs, do things like they start their own practice or. Or other things and and the majority of them never earn the type of salary that they would have earned when they were inside of law firms. Or ever have access to a sophisticated clients and so forth again.
So this is what I'm going to talk about today. I'm I'm trying to help you and help you avoid issues. And if you are someone, watching this, then that's had issues then maybe this will or about it's about your experience and maybe this will help you.
But a lot of people do recover from losing jobs. So there's nothing wrong with that. And as a matter of fact, I would say more than half of them ended up at better firms in the long run they work. But a lot of them don't and and things can be very bad. And I see this from where I sit in terms of my position, and you should understand that there are certain mistakes and reasons that are going to make you often [00:05:00] might lose a job and things.
That may not necessarily be caused from you. So let's get into those rules. So the first reason people lose their jobs or their hours are. And your hours are really the way that law firms measure your worth. Having a lot of hours, many times overcomes any personality issues you have, it can overcome anything.
A lot of times I've seen attorneys that are billing, incredible amounts of hours that have all sorts of other issues that you would never think that they would be really respected by the firm. But ours are assigned that people are giving you work. They're assigned that you're willing to work hard.
They're assigned that you're getting repeat business from clients or assigned that clients like you. And and they can definitely help you the another reason of course it was not having enough business if you don't have enough business, that's another thing that could hurt you.
Being among the least qualified in your class. Let me just go through these real quickly, cause I want to make sure see how these are working in this webinar. Give me one second. Okay. Yeah. So I'm just going cover these in this order. So the first thing is the [00:06:00] hours again, one of the most common and if you have low hours it's always a possibility can lose your job.
But typically what'll happen is in most law firms is as I'm sure, if you work in a law firm, you're aware is if you go extended length of time without enough hours, you start getting very nervous and worried that you lose your job. You start going to superiors asking them about jobs or basking them about if everything's okay.
And you're in a risk of losing your job if your hours are well. And it's very common for people to lose their jobs due to low hours, partners lose their job is if they don't have enough hours associates, those are jobs that they don't have enough hours, a summer associates that don't work enough hours or are not hired as permanent associates.
Ours are really the, be all and end all of what a law firm functions on. It's really the most important thing. There's nothing more important in terms of your success in a law firm. I would say, I there's a lot of things are important, but ours are among the most important because it means that people are giving you work.
And if you're not [00:07:00] getting work from other people whether it's clients or partners in your firm, it means that that your work is not good that you may not be human, be difficult to work with. You people don't like you, who knows but low hours are typically the best measure for performance because your ability to get work from others is really the name of the game.
That's the name of the game for partners. Partners are expected to get work from outside. People, associates are expected to get work from partners and and more senior people and people get work to people. They do good work for them and do it the way they want it done and get the results they want.
And if you don't do that, then people aren't going to give you more work. It's as simple as hat. So people with low hours that's the most important thing. And if you have the most hours you're typically going to have the most job security. It doesn't matter if you're there's plenty of firms that like lay off entire departments, but they always keep the people.
Most of the time they have the most hours, they would be insane to get rid of the people with the most hours, just as sales organizations will not let go their salespeople that are the best in [00:08:00] bringing in the most business, they will keep the ones that are doing the most. And and so in terms of their sales say exceeding their salary and so forth.
Hours are a sign of a healthier practice area. There. Really what's most important and and most law firms will hire based on your productivity and so forth and your hours. If a law firm is very busy, people always complain about that, but that's a good thing because that means you can implement security and and they want to make as much money as possible.
They would much rather have five attorneys billing, 2,500 hours a year. And that then you know, six attorneys billing 1500 hours a year, it's just, it's better for them. They it's, they want their people busy. They want them active and they if they can, they always reduce headcount to make money.
And and it's just a, it's always been a measure of how hard you're going to work. And it's really the most important career principle there is if you're having problems in any firm, if you're getting bad reviews, if you're you feel like you're not getting along with people, I don't know what the issues could be.
If you feel like, once you [00:09:00] start increasing your hours most of those problems whatever other things that people are giving you start going and going away. I've seen people lose jobs in firms with low hours and they'll come to them and they'll say they won't tell them a lot of times your hours.
Someone could be billing 1800 hours and everyone else in mailing 2,500 and the person who's billing 1800, may lose their job and be told that they're not a good fit or something it's just hours. And I'm not saying that 1800 hours is bad. I think it probably more better example would be like 13 or 1400 versus everyone else working 1800.
But that's really the most important core principle many times you just need to find ways to to, to do what you can to keep your hours up. And that's not to say that you have to overbuild clients, you should be doing work. The clients approve and need and that the law firm work groups and names, but and you need to be thorough, but large.
The nice thing about large law firms is the clients do expect the work to be very well done. And and you need to be able to create work. There's a concept that's important. And anytime you see like a [00:10:00] business starting up somewhere, what they're doing is they're creating work. A restaurant starting up is creating work.
They're going to have to bring in food and cook it and serve it to people. That's creating a work, a law firm that has clients needs to create work. So it's not just you do work for someone and you're done it's you typically will say, okay we did this and this for you, but we should also do this and this for you.
And that's what the best attorneys do. That's how you should be turning in assignments. That's how you should be talking to clients. You shouldn't just, do a work and then that's it. You should do the work and then find extra things to be done, including the work you do for partners and other people.
And so ours are. Extremely important. And and it works under the principle of thirds. One third of the revenue you bring in typically goes to your compensation. One third goes to from overhead, which is office space, it secretaries and all that. And then the other third goes to the front partner's list profit and partners, obviously like it, if you're billing more hours and and the more you're doing the better.
And if your compensation is half of your collections, you can see that [00:11:00] you can definitely get into a lot of trouble and your hours are always going to be compared to other people you're working with. So if you're in a very serious environment and other people are working harder than you, that's going to hurt you.
I had an instance where I quit a firm once and I was, I was young and I was just very dumb. I was complaining to some partner when I was quitting. And I was saying that, may partner and didn't and the partner said something like the person didn't make partner only build 2,800 hours.
And the person that made partner build 3,100, and that was it. And I wasn't anything else that we'd like this person I have more business, it was all about hours. And it's, everything comes down a lot of times to ours law firms want to hire people that are willing to work the hardest and and do the most work.
And that's how they, that's how you contribute when you're when you're when you're young and also when you're older as well. So let me just see here, if there's anything else I should cover training our senior number of hours decreases, right? So [00:12:00] younger attorneys, many times want to they want younger attorneys to a lot of hours.
The reason they typically want younger attorneys to go a lot of hours just because your billing rates are lower and law firm and the clients do not look at it as closely as your billing rates increase. It becomes harder many times for you to get work. And the best, the highest, the best firms will constantly increase the billing rates of partners, making it harder for you to hold on to clients and so forth.
So it's just a big measure of your performance. Let's see here. Yeah. Another thing that's interesting to there's just not a lot of institutional memory. So you may bill a lot of hours one year and then the next year, not a lot of hours. And unfortunately you could lose your job even when that happens.
The hours you bill are important, but you have to keep you have to con constantly do whatever you can to keep work coming in. And and it's really one of the most important things there is, and I've seen incredible numbers of people. And I say incredible. I Thousands of people I've encountered over the years that have [00:13:00] lost their jobs and been very busy and then suddenly lost their jobs from things so down.
So you always have to do whatever you can to to keep your hours as high as possible. I bill as many hours as you can. And I hate to say that make that kind of the most important thing, but that's really when it comes down to it as is the most important thing to remember about losing the job inside of a law firm.
So things always slow down. I was reading today about. There's at this point in time, a big threat of, even more inflation and because there's inflation the unemployment rate the cost of workers is going to go up and it's the cost to workers is going to go up. It's going to cause a recession.
And I think there is an article that Larry Summers at the New York times or wall street journal covering it. So the point is that things always slow down and the sun doesn't shine forever. So you always need to be prepared and put yourself in an environment where there's a lot of work.
And when work slows down, it's important to be prepared for that. As partners get more, as you get more senior and you become a partner you're expected to have a business. And if you [00:14:00] don't have business, you're going to be dependent on other people. And if you don't have business, you're really going to be at the mercy of the law firm.
And that means that you're going to have to, you're going to be dependent on them for business. And and if they decide that they want to do the work instead of giving it to you you can end up losing your job very closely, very quickly. You need to be grow up as you become more senior and may be transitioned from someone who's doing the work for others, to someone who's bringing in your own work.
That's how the model works at law firms. People that don't do that really end up in a lot of trouble later in their career. And one of the funny thing happened when I started in this business, I was it used to be that the, there were these directories of recruiters that would be published in different magazines and newspapers and stuff every year.
And for some reason, some magazine or newspaper published, something that said, Harrison Barnes is very good at placing senior attorneys without business. I don't know why they said that or where that came from, but I was suddenly overcome with tons and tons of senior attorneys inside of law firms all [00:15:00] over the country that were partners without business.
They were contacting me. And I found it very sad because in many cases, these partners were being paid at major AmLaw 102 lot a hundred law firms. The same thing as mid-level associates, they were not paid well. They were not treated well. They, their self-esteem was very low and I'll be Nate and they didn't feel good about themselves and they didn't have business.
And so they would come to me and they would say things like I may not have business, but I'm a very good mentor, young associates, or I may not have business. I'm very good at part proofreading work for people and things like that. And that was very sad to me. And and I remember had to deliver I would drive and deliver documents and things to their house.
before interview. I don't know why, what it was, maybe, information about a law firm or something, but and it didn't look like they were doing well and it was sad. So if you don't have business, it can be very difficult as you get more senior. And because you're going to be, it doesn't mean that you're going to necessarily have a bad job.
You can go in house and do all sorts of things, but in a law firm, [00:16:00] you're not going to have a lot of power and your self-esteem may be under attack and you will not feel as good about yourself because you'll be dependent on others. The best thing you can do really is to learn how to bring in business in the long run.
And and it's difficult. If you don't have enough businesses, senior attorney, then you're at the mercy of the firm. Now there are attorneys. Believe it or not all over the country making over a million dollars a year inside of law firms that don't have any business.
So you can make partner and lots of major law firms without any business. It's not to say that it's impossible. You can even become an equity partner. If the law firm has large institutional clients, but the problem is your long-term security. Isn't there. And you're only going to get that security in most cases, unless there's people that are very good protecting you.
You're only going to get that security unless you're able to bring in business. And that's that's the scary thing. And then many times what will happen is someone will work for someone or a couple people in the department that will really like their work. Most people will give them a lot of [00:17:00] work to do, but then those people will leave firms or switch firms.
And when those people switch firms, most of the time, even if you're a partner, if you don't have any business, you won't be welcomed with the new firm. So that's just something to think about. The people get mentors, feed some work and then may help some make partner in the law firm.
But then it can often last your entire career. So there are very powerful partners that can give you work and it can last your entire career. Even if you don't have business many times when they leave, they give you those that business. But senior attorney switches firms, or is forced to which often happens then you may not be able to go to the new farm and be left without, so it's a very serious problem without business.
And so it's just something to think about. It's always going to be in the background, if you don't have business, the more senior you get, even if you're making I've seen associates inside of law firms making well more, more than half a million dollars a year or actually even more than that.
But the problem is that that it won't let it typically doesn't last. And when it lasts [00:18:00] when it ends it, it's not fun and you just need to be very careful. The other problem is if you don't have any business, as you get more senior as you're seven or eight years out, or maybe a little bit more than that, sometimes then to lateral and into a firm pain anywhere near where you're making becomes very difficult.
So it's another thing to be aware of and the longer you wait to get business degree to your pain is going to be, and the more likely you are to lose your job.
So the first thing is making sure you have hours. And the second thing is having a business. And if you don't keep business, it's definitely going to be very difficult. I've seen attorneys spend months or even years looking for a position when they don't, when they're senior and they lose their job without that business, typically there, they try to go in house or another type of job, but it can be very difficult.
It's also very common. I don't hate to say this, but probably for whatever reason more so for men. But a lot of times men will be in large law firms. They will advance up the chain and they'll get though there'll be making a lot of money. And then all of a sudden the law firm will basically be like, listen, you don't [00:19:00] have any business.
You have to go. And the only job they can get is often paying one third or one half of what they were making. And their self-esteem has hit, they are mad at home. I don't know what happens, but and divorces and things happen. Because they may be don't have, are meeting their own expectations or and it's a lot of stress for the people that have to readjust our lifestyle.
So you have to be just very aware of all this as you get more senior, the importance of business and just how important it is. And and even the people that you trust the most to give you the business when things do slow down, which they always do their their loyalty is always going to be to themselves and making sure that they th that they give themselves worked before you, and so you just need to be very careful.
Without business, almost all law firms are going to expect you to leave the other thing, just one other point that I want to bring up is there's almost many times like a sense of arrogance.
So there's a sense of arrogance. If you're a very senior attorney and ma meaning more than 10 years of experience at a large law firm, making a very good [00:20:00] salary. And even if you don't have business, there's a sense of arrogance that this is going to continue forever. And that most times isn't inefficiency in some market inefficiency because the firm does not need to pay that much.
And so if the firm doesn't need to pay you that much, though, they have no incentive to do so very long. And so they will typically at some point push you out. And and that's just what happens large law firms, of course, with the salaries to pay. You're often much more expendable.
They want a hungry, younger attorneys that are working very hard at the lower level. And they often do not occur to you to get business because they they have plenty of large clients. They're trying to do the work for the partners too. So unless you develop this, you're typically not going to have a lot of employment security in the long run.
Yeah. So this is really the main reason that people lose their jobs inside of law firms. It's it's because there's no business. So as you get more senior, they'll make it about other things. But without business, you really have lost control over your career. And this is a lot of detail about this.
I [00:21:00] almost I'm almost reluctant to keep talking about it, cause it's so much information and I keep seeing that same thing over and over again, but it's something that every attorney needs to understand. It's something you should start working on really when you're actually in law school creating good relationships with people and doing whatever you possibly can to have business.
Another reason that and so that's really all I'm going to say about that. And I apologize for spending so much time on it, but it's extremely important. The other reason people are let go is typically, and I hate to say this as well, but a lot of times you're though, if you're the least qualified attorneys in your class I've seen a lot of people let go of stuff a lot from music and the ranks.
Typically they may look at the hours you bill, but if you went to Yale law school and you're there and you're competing with your PR, you're probably not going to lose your job. If there's people that, maybe went to some local third tier law school, they're probably going to lose her job first.
That's just what happens. I don't, approve it. I'm not saying it's the right thing. But at least qualified often means, so you mentioned the worst law school, or you have the poorest qualifications. It doesn't apply to all law firms and I don't necessarily like me [00:22:00] making that stereotype, but when law firms are thinning their ranks, they often will look at your hours is the first thing.
But they're also going to look at your how you stack up compared to other people. One thing I saw in, and the reason I bring this up is because there's always these layoffs that happened in the legal profession. They typically, historically they haven't happened in more than eight years now, but they typically have happened every eight years.
And what happens every eight years as the economy slows down, when the economy slows down and the law firms start letting all the corporate people go, or there's a big change. And what happens when things are very busy is people are able to get into law firms that wouldn't be able to get to them and slower times.
So the bar to get into the law firm goes down. So for example, in is very active. You don't need to be from the best law school to get into major law firms. You don't even need to be from another large law firm to get into the biggest law firms, many times for the best law firms, but when things slow down the first people to go off and the people that had the least clot, but not the strongest [00:23:00] qualifications.
Now, it's not always the case, and it's not like that at every firm, but as a general rule, it's that's how it works. And the reason that your qualifications are important is when someone's out there pitching business, a lot of times, what they'll say is these are the, this is who we're going to put on your team.
You should have three or four people they'll show their resumes. And clients love seeing that you may have worked at this big law firm or have these quick qualifications. They like seeing the, you may have worked at a really big firm before them. And they don't necessarily seem, and I don't have anything against Thomas Cooley law school really.
It's not a bad place, but they don't like, like seeing not the best law school, some things on there when they're paying these high rates clients. Partners like it, if you have the good qualifications, it's even though the school you went to really is ultimately not that important in terms of the type of quality of attorney, you are.
It can it is your pedigree of news part of your brand. So it's almost like saying a watch is made in Switzerland versus a watch be made in Taiwan. It's just, it doesn't matter, probably not that much. It may, but law firms are selling these products and the [00:24:00] schools matter.
So if you're among the least qualified attorneys in your class, you just have to be prepared that you have a little bit harder of a row. Our road to go on because law firms are more likely to let you go than they are the people with a better qualifications. And how do you get around that?
You provide more value than people that went to better schools, or you go to firms where there's more people like you. I'm just, white guys. And I've seen lots of people. This is just an example about pace law school, which is a good law school. Again, I have no problem with any of these schools, but during the two thousands, I saw lots of people from there going to work with the very best law firms in the country.
And and and they were able to when things slowed down, they were not able to keep their jobs. And that's just kinda how it is. I was a summer associate in a big New York law firm. And then it was during a slow time in the market. They kept, they made offers to the best people from the best schools, but not the ones that were not the best.
And I didn't think that was necessarily the right thing, because I thought there were, there's some people that had one guy that went to Rutgers, [00:25:00] it was very effective. But it's just how it works. The other thing is just being the last person hired in your class. If so, if there are if you're hired as a fifth year as a lateral and and then, year later, the law firm needs to let go a bunch of fifth years.
You may end up losing your job there because of that. And it's just something to be careful about. It rarely happens as it used to, but law firms do they like the ability to nurture attorneys up the chain. And so if you're the last person hired someone that was a summer associate at the firm and there's a fourth or fifth year probably has more security than a lateral at the same firm.
And it's just the last person hired often is the first person to lose their job. And so that's just something to think about. And and that's, it's not always like that, but it is to some extent, and the law firms do value loyalty. They'd like people that were summer associates there. And and your connection to that institution and your ability to weather storms and things.
When, because things are not always good in any employment situation, [00:26:00] your ability to get through those is definitely rewarded in the long run. Those are just among the last hired back in her YouTube. I know another thing is that happens a lot of times, and this is a big reason, and this is more when people are surprised about losing their job, it's often because of this, but it's undermine miss appear in a law firm.
And this is a very common reason. And typically what happens is I see this all the time and it's such regularity that, I could, if, a hundred people apply this morning to, to work with our company 10 have been fired at least one or two, it probably for this reason. And and the, what happens is people just will undermine a superior.
So that means someone's giving you work and. And you do something that upsets them. You do you hurt their social relationships? You something you dog start their hardest to income or other needs. Any way you interfere with that is met with a harsh reaction. And so some example it would be if a partner brings in a [00:27:00] client and they're doing work for them, and that client is basically paying for that person's salary and all sorts of things.
And then you say bad things about a partner who has given you the work to the client. That person is going to come down on you extremely hard and hurt you. If you say bad things to them and undermine them in front of their superiors, they're going to hurt you. If you one of the things I've seen that you see is, a few that they see that you're talking to their spouse or something, and it looks like you're flirting.
They'll be mad at they won't like you. And so anything you can do that interferes with food, shelter, money is always met with a lot of hostility and can really hurt you. Making people look bad in front of clients, any anything you do that undermines a superior is often really can be hit very hard.
And and and again, you have a thin skin general and so forth. It's social status, all this sort of thing to people, security anything that makes them look bad. It's not going to be met well. People are always trying to protect themselves and and don't like it when others are [00:28:00] trying to undermine them.
I had an instance once where I was working for a partner. It was a very effective litigator, but for whatever reason, he couldn't write effective. I don't know, maybe something, I think at some point he might've been able to, but he just she, every few sentences would have bad words in it. Not bad words, but he was.
Just, he would use, he just couldn't the sentences wouldn't make sense when he would write. So in order for him to like you what I did is no one ever said anything to him. I would go through and clean up what he wrote and make it look good and everything would be fine, but other people, many times, would bring it up.
And there was one associate in the firm that I worked in that had worked with him that. Basically told everyone that guy could at. And and think I'm Blackbaud basically never give a work again. So the point is that if you threaten people and make them feel threatened they're going to come down and you're very hard.
So you can never undermine a superior. You should never talk behind superior's backs. Your jobs are to make people look good. It's not to say that you're wrong, or if you have [00:29:00] criticisms of a superior or you even a peer many times, but they will not like you, and I've seen all sorts of people get fired for upsetting superiors or by all sorts of things.
These are just some example questioning the necessity of assignment may or not be necessary and acting almost in indignant about having to do an assignment. I've seen lots of people get fired for that. I've seen I had an instance once where I was working for someone and they they gave me an assignment that made no sense.
And and I let them know and that I didn't think it made any sense. And they were very mad. They were very upset about it. It, people do not have to be you don't have to be right. And your, especially when you're working for someone, your job was really to care about Orvis.
You shouldn't really worry if the right or wrong. Just let it happen. It's not you can advise them, but don't, don't tell others or create problems. For work has some of a client, if a firm has someone willing to pay for work the last thing you should do is get in the way of that.
That's how they make money. And just remember that if you're doing work for a client that a partner brought in that partner [00:30:00] has all sorts of pressures, they have pressures to make sure they're billing enough hours. They have pressures to bring in a certain amount of revenue. And if you stand on the way of that's going to hurt them.
So let me just give you an example. Cause a lot of times I think what happens in, in all instances, whether it's with with in everybody, everyone tends to see things from their point of view. So say you're a partner in a law firm and you're told that if you don't, if you don't.
Bring in if you don't bring in at least a $3 million in business this year, you're going to lose your job. Or you may be you may be put on you, you may or may not be able to stay in equity partner. You may be become an income partner and you bring in this client and you give it to some associate to, to work on it.
And the associate comes to you. And you're very excited because you know that the client's going to pay for at least a million dollars worth the work. And the associate comes here and says, Hey, I figured out how to stop work on this case because if we do this, everything is suddenly going to go away.
And[00:31:00] and the client will went well. That's great. And maybe that's maybe that's what they should do, but if the partner says, no one needs you to continue working on it, and then you go behind the partner's back and say stuff to other people, the partner's not mad at you for figuring out a way to win the case.
The partner's upset because the partner has all these goals and things that they're trying to do that have nothing to do with you and their security and livelihood is threatened by by that. And I hate to say it, I that's a horrible thing to say, and it's a horrible indictment of a legal system, but it's just the way it is.
Many times you have to, as an associate or whatever, you have to be able to be careful about undermining people. Oh. Or if a partner let's, and I don't like that example because that's implying that partners and people in firms are unethical because they really aren't.
For the most part, but they but they, but if you, you just have to play on, put yourself in their point of view in terms of what they're thinking when they're asking something to be done. So if you're step stepping in the way of work and you've done that may actually be harming them.
And they're going to look at you as a threat. Another [00:32:00] example would be. If that the partner's not in the office and they're giving you work and they're all remote and all the other partners on the office, and you start going around telling people that they're unreachable and they're, you don't know where they are and things that can also potentially make them look bad and they'll come down on you.
So the point is that you have to just be careful about what you're doing. And realize that the work you're doing will pay people salaries and all sorts of things. And and you have to be very careful about how, if undermining people and realizing that many times the survival with the people you're working on depends on you doing a good work and doing what you're asked.
And that doesn't mean that you shouldn't find solutions to win cases because that will obviously is what people want. They want to win. but the point is that maybe there's another way of looking at it. And and you always have to put yourself in other people's shoes when you're doing things.
And and understand that you could be threatening people's lives with that and gossiping and things, and saying that the person is doing a bad job, but the client will also hurt them. And there are people that are in every law firm that are looking for trouble. I don't know why it is, but [00:33:00] it's like that in every employment situation, they're people that are looking for trouble and to.
Undermine people and that sort of thing, or or find things wrong. And and you just need to be careful about that. This kind of thing is very common. People undermining people and getting in trouble for it. And it just happens a lot. And you can certainly be ultra efficient with your work, but you may not get a repeat business from people as well.
And senior associates and so forth you have to understand that there's always going to be ECOS involved and so forth. And then of course there's other people that will undermine our entire firm about something I've seen attorneys that have gotten in trouble.
I went to an attorney, lose a job for talking to a reporter about a case, which undermine the firm. I've seen attorneys lose their jobs for all sorts of things. So talk to me back, is another one. You'd have to be very careful that anything you say behind someone's back, you can almost rest assured could get back to them.
So you need to be very careful about what you're saying, even to your peers or to people, other people. And then also. Talking about people over billing is [00:34:00] another one. You can lose money jobs for that. And then just, be very careful. Let me see here. Preserving reputation, people more senior and that and then the other one is of course getting mad.
That's a very common one. People will get mad at management and create problems. You when you're working in most organizations, if you get mad at people you certainly can. I've seen people get mad about things like pro bono that the firm's not doing enough pro bono and that creating problems I've seen people get mad about all sorts of things.
That management and the problem is if management feels threatened by you with the management of the firm, all they're going to do is take it out on you and they'll figure out ways to to get back at you. And it's really nothing that you can you know worry about too much, but I've seen lots of people get in trouble.
I saw one time I saw a senior associate. At affirm, I was working for getting a lot of trouble for for criticizing th the firm's lack of pro bono program and and and that they forced them out being seniors another big one. That's another reason people lose their jobs.
I've already [00:35:00] talked about that quite a bit, but as you do get more senior and you, if you don't have business, your billing rate is going to increase in your, your you're going to be competing with partners for work, so that creates a lot of problems. And you need to be careful about that.
So unless you get more senior, you don't have a lot of business that can hurt you quite a bit. And then a lot of law firms, I've seen a lot of them we'll even have mandatory retirement agents ages with 65, which is pretty funny, but they do. And so that. Can also, are you a spot, a big egos are another big one, a large, you're when you're working for a law firm the law firm, is a group of people that you know, that, that are expected to get along.
And if you have a big ego that, that can often help hurt you the most common source of people with eco, so talk to well, large law firms or young attorneys that have huge ego. So if you move to a very prestigious firm to a less prestigious firm, or if you went to a large firm to a small firm, or if you went to a great law school and then you work at a move to a smaller market, and you think you're smarter and better than people around [00:36:00] you, and you make them know that they will come down on you and prove that you're wrong.
And that will hurt you. So I've seen a lot of people get in trouble with that. I see a lot of people that don't get the kind of jobs they want that are working in firms that don't pay as much as they believe they should be making. Giving a lot of trouble as well for complaining about that.
And law firms will do whatever they can. If you're acting like you're better than someone, they will find ways to show you that you're wrong about that. And that just happens all the time. So I've seen lots of people w lose jobs because of that. Another one is that if you tell people in your firm that there's something else, another type of job you'd rather be doing, meaning you want to be, I don't know, a professional skier who knows that if you tell your superiors there that you're not, you don't plan on sticking around long, they're just going to look around and they're going to believe that that you're probably third letting people go they probably should find someone else to do the job, so that can also help you quite a bit or hurt you quite a bit.
And and and they, any, anybody that wants to do something else, whether. [00:37:00] Practicing the firm there at the law firm doesn't want to waste time training them. The law firm doesn't want to waste time getting the work and putting them on manners that could happen a long time. They would prefer to have people in the firm that are likely to stick around and are committed.
And so they will they tend to advance those people instead of you and and they will often push you out. You have to be careful about that. And a lot of times people will just talk about wanting to do something else completely. And it's just a very bad idea to do that. You should act that's what you want to do.
You should be in the law firm there to learn and do the best you can. And the problem is anybody that wants to be doing something else is not committed to learning their works are usually not as good they're they don't spend as much time developing good relationships.
They tend not to persevere and quit at the first sign of resistance. And that, that can be very harmful and just letting people know that there's something that you prefer to be doing other than what you're doing. It's just not a good idea. I, and when I was in law firms, There were always people that were doing that.
And the, [00:38:00] and I don't think anyone that did that ever became a partner in any law firm I was ever in. I invited them ever said they wanted to do something else. It's because it gets back and it's just, it's not the right thing. I think a couple of them might've made counsel on different firms, but they never made partner.
So you have to be committed to what you're doing. Another one is your activities outside of work. Your personal life, often a complete into your work life. Law firms will penalize you for that. I've seen people lose jobs for posting on different social media sites. They didn't like practicing law or not hired because of that.
I've seen there's just some examples. The first one is a Facebook post Sanford and enjoy practicing mob. I saw an attorney accused of beating up his wife and divorce, whether or not it was true or not your nose, but another one that was arrested for a prostitute crucible crime, personal blog the all these sorts of things.
So attorneys are really expected that you don't want to draw a lot of attention to your personal life itself. And you and law firms, especially the largest ones really believe that if you do anything that looks a little [00:39:00] fishy to them that that it's going to hurt their brand and they really don't want to be involved in it.
And and and it depends too, in the area of the country you're in. So other certain areas of the country are a little bit more tolerant than others, I would say LA so a pretty talent area compared to say the east coast or parts of the east coast, but it just depends.
And different cultures have different firms have different levels of of things that they think are okay. But you just have to be very careful and you have to find you have to be in a position where you understand your behavior is being watched one and too much money is another big one.
So there's always the sorts of people that in law firms that are asking believe that our law firm subpoena more money they're compete. They're comparing the salary of say a midsize firm with mid-sized clients to a major law firm with major clients that can pay more. They and they believe that they should be making a lot more money.
If you tell people that that they're going to believe that you don't appreciate what you're getting and they're simply going to want to get someone else. So a lot of times people that go to great law schools will [00:40:00] expect to get paid that amount, just because the law school, they went to, not because of the value of that providing they may do that in small markets and mid-level mid markets and small firms and midsize firms that can't afford to pay them that much.
And it's just not the place. From that can't afford to pay you a certain amount of money to do that. It's also not the case. It's not also different types of firms have different types of clients. So if there's a large law firm that is representing companies that will write checks for whatever the law firm asks for each month, they can afford to pay you a lot of money.
But a lot of times the majority of firms out there can't. A lot of times people will always make money. An issue with firms. They'll ask for bonuses, they'll ask for a higher salaries last for all these things. And if the law firm can't afford to pay it instead of, reaching into his pocket and trying to pay you more, they will just often let you go.
And that's sometimes people get bonuses and they're unhappy with their bonuses and they tell the firm they're unhappy with their bonuses and partners hate that. I w I talked to partners almost, the hiring [00:41:00] partners and things inside of law firms. And they're often very unhappy not hiring printed, other partners that are paying bonuses to their associates and the associates are unhappy with their bonuses and the partners are very unhappy.
Like they feel like they don't appreciate, what they're getting and so forth. So if a law firm is not paying you enough it may it's usually a problem, but if you're unhappy with your compensation, the law firm is typically just think about it from a law firm perspective.
If you don't like your compensation and you feel very unhappy about it and you make them aware of it. Every time they give you an assignment, every time they, you talk to the person you complain to, they're going to feel badly. Like they're not doing enough for you, and they're going to want to hire people that are actually appreciating what they're, what they are doing for them.
And that, that can hurt you. And and I just think that if you're asking for more than the law firm can necessarily afford to pay law firms are very aware of their compensation. And if you're asking them, then they're feeling like you're a threat. And that's what I believe.
I'm not sure but I think that most law firms are doing the best they can with the revenue that's coming in. Now, there [00:42:00] are lots of law firms where the people at the top are taking way too much money and not distributing it. And and there's an argument to be made of course, that you should be getting more of that.
But if you're threatening the law firm you're often with the compensation they're there, if you're complaining to your superiors, they also will believe that you're complaining to other attorneys in the firm and they are not going to be happy about that. So you need to be very careful about expressing any form of dissatisfaction with your.
Compensation, another one is just questioned the quality of superiors work, intellectual abilities. I don't need to go too much into detail about this, but if you are working for someone and they're giving you assignments and you're much smarter than them, when you will be in this situation all the time if you're a, an associate or your mid-level associate, you can do a partners and things that are more, that you're more smart event.
It's not your role to point that out. And if you do that and question their judgment and so forth, they're not going to like it. And then they will come down on you making stupid mistakes. So that's another one. I'm going to try to run through these pretty quickly, cause I know we've been doing there's a [00:43:00] lot of them, I don't need to go into a ton of detail, but people make stupid mistakes all the time often.
It's involving drinking too much or something just, I don't drink don't I would recommend, if you like to drink or tea or whatever, and you get a little crazy when you do, I just would either the best thing would probably be not to go to the parties. But if you do probably not to drink because this just gets so many people in trouble, I've seen partners fired for it repeatedly.
I see them every year. I see associates fire report. I see people accused of being drunk that weren't even drunk, so they don't even drink, or hardly had one drink. So you just have to be very careful. You have to be careful about public displays of affection with your colleagues and just even though there's people want to get together and be friends I've just seen way too many examples of people I saw someone making much of someone's breasts and that, that ended their career right there.
I saw I've seen partners in major law firms get drunk at Christmas parties and helped her the cab or, and and [00:44:00] then, basically losing a job after being at a firm for a long time. This is a very conservative firm. I was very surprised by that one.
I've seen someone talking about a local judge when they were at a party that wasn't a law firm party. I don't know if it actually wasn't a law firm party and the law firm believed that their reputation was damaged and they let them go because of that. These law firms sketch a party that was considered offensive to a a non-majority group in the inside the firm.
I don't know if it's missing, I dunno what it was a joke about women or something that I don't even remember, but this person's like over for the skit. So you just have to be very careful none of this stuff. If you have any questions about it and. Don't do it. But this kind of stuff happens all the time firms being under new management, after mergers, that's a very common thing.
People lose their jobs for that reason all the time. That's again, something that's beyond your control. Typically what'll happen in a merger is there'll be a dominant group non-dominant group. And the dominant group will often cut partners. They'll cut associates that are not connected to profitable [00:45:00] partners in all sorts of things.
So that can happen as well. If you tell about that and how to move through these this is a lot of detail. And then a lot, this is another one that can really hurt people, is taking an extended leave for gone multiple leaves. So if you leave a law firm I still have a funny thing has happened that society is changing of course, but but about five years ago I had a candidate and I've had several of them actually that were men that went on maternity leave.
Like they, men are offered, a law firm will say, yes, all men can have a month of maternity leave. And so these men decided they were going to take maternity leave and they'd come back to their firms after a month and month absence. And just crickets, no, one's giving them work. And then there's what's happening.
And even in busy firms, so you have, I'm not saying that all law firms are like that. And of course the majority of them aren't these days, but in things are changing, but taking an extended leave of absence can often hurt you quite a bit. So not necessarily women going to have kids.
I think that's very acceptable. But I think if someone's leaving [00:46:00] because of other reasons and then they do it then people will certainly not like it and they won't trust you as much. So you just have to be very careful anytime you want to take a leave of absence.
Most people that take extended leave of absences when they come back, end up leaving. So that's just the law firms the view of it. And I do not. I have not seen taking leave of absences, hurt women. I will just be completely that are having kids. I don't think I've ever seen that in my career.
I think it actually, people respect them. And there's just a, whatever, it may have been the case in the past, that was a problem, but I've never seen that be a problem. I'm talking about typically the leave of absence is for other reasons, not sure I want to practice law anymore or who knows or whatever the reason is.
And sometimes health or psychological problems can, things as well. Most people when they take these kinds of leaves it's not a good thing if it's too long and certainly there's nothing wrong with taking a vacation or but there's just a lot of prejudice once you walk away from the work so many times.
And and it's difficult to get work. I knew one [00:47:00] partner at a major law firm that I don't know why they did it, but they decided they wanted to take a leave of absence for maybe three months. And then when they came back they spent the next six months trying to get work again because no one would give him work.
It's the matters that they were working on were no longer why not? I don't know. So sexual harassment related to allegations can be a big one. Most you have to be very careful. I would recommend anyone not have any form of any relationship at work. I just think it's like probably the most dangerous thing you can possibly do.
I've seen. I saw one of the, I saw the head of a major law firm once that had a consensual relationship with someone that was a paralegal that wasn't even there that they didn't even work with that that, was basically blackballed out of the entire legal profession because of that.
So it's just, you have to be very careful with this stuff. It's you know, all it takes is one complaint and it will be just, it's just not worth it. It's just whatever you can meet people at other places. It's just, I would not deal with it. It's just [00:48:00] too, it's a line, it's a minefield.
So I've seen my junior partner lose a job for making a remark mark about his secretary, his appearance just saying, I don't even know something, not too dangerous if you look nice today or something. You just have to be careful. I've seen senior associates one guy was blackballed.
Literally almost in the entire legal profession. And he was in the Midwest for asking out a couple of female associates and then the law firm would happily tell everyone that's why he was fired. And when he was trying to get a job. I've seen lots of people lose jobs for that.
So I don't want to get too much into it, but this is a big one. Just my biggest recommendation is never have relationships in the office. I You can, if you want to, that's fine. But if things don't go well and not never relationship and as well, then you certainly can get in a lot of trouble substance abuse problems.
This is a big one. I I have known lots of attorneys that have had very serious substance abuse problems, or even hidden substance abuse problems. And it's law firms when they learn about it will often let you [00:49:00] go. If they can tell, if I, I certainly can tell if someone comes to work a little hungover and but if a substance abuse problem is creating problems, typically what happens is there's a lot of absences and people not showing up and things.
And and what law firms will often do with people like that is so it doesn't come to potential. Clients is I'll let them go. And those people will continue moving all sorts of different firms. And then they'll they'll function there as long as possible, and then move to another firm.
So again, if you have substance abuse problems, the best thing you can do is deal with it and then and get help, or at least, realize if it's interfering with a job, do what you can. Lots of people lose jobs also for refusing to do certain types of assignments. So I want saw an attorney that had been at the firm for a long time, like 12 or 13 years, I lose her job and they were asked to do an assignment and they were just in a bad mood about something.
So you can't, you just have to do what you're asked and if you're uncooperative law firms will not like it. So you are expected even a junior partner ascertainment by a senior partner that they may think of stupid. You need to do what you're asked to do. And and it's just, you can get in a lot [00:50:00] of trouble.
Law firms only function when people are cooperating and doing a good job together. And you have to be very careful. I know one attorney. But I have a lot of respect for that was working in a big firm. And I believe I don't know what it was in San Francisco or something, and wanted to do a certain branch of litigation and would only do work that was in that branch.
And they were so mad that he wasn't wouldn't take other assignments. So they fired him and I, because he was fired, it took him a long time to find another job. And when you did find a job, it wasn't as good. So you have to be very careful about that. And I kinda, your job inside of a law firm is to make the law firm money.
And and so if you are not doing the things that are you're supposed to, that can hurt you. People lie in the resume all the time. This is very common. If you do lie in your resume the odds are that you may be found out at some point. And if someone doesn't like you, they will go back and look at your resume and try to find something that's wrong.
I've seen people fired for lying about dates of employment. I've seen people fired for. Leaving a firm up the resume. I've [00:51:00] seen people line, fired for lying about grade point averages and all these things. It's not worth it. Really what happens is when you're hired, most people will hire you because what's on your resume, but more because of the connection that they have many times, this is not a big one, but if your collections are low, so the work you're doing for your, for clients is not the clients aren't paying when you do it for whatever reason that means your collections are low, then you may lose a job for that.
And I'm going to move through these pretty quickly. So there's a lot of them lots of people are fired for lying. That's very common. If you're caught lying you will often lose your job. Some law firms won't care that much, but a lot of times it's about trust. So I, one of the most shocking instances I ever saw was someone that was asked if they had sent a letter and they said, yes, I sent it.
And now. It turned out that they didn't send it, but they sent it right after they were asked if they sent it. And and they were fired for that, even though they were close to being a partner, I've seen people fired for a hundred dollars an expense report that was wrong.
In addition, I've [00:52:00] seen people let go for all sorts of things. The other one's a big one is just law firms slowing down their work. So if law firms are slowing down many times they will the management will to be, as a way to avoid things getting worse, they will just let people go.
And and so they will do what they can to to protect themselves. So they have men they'll they may not blame the work slumming down because they don't want to hurt the brand. They may just suddenly say, there's something wrong with your performance and you're not doing a good job.
And and blame it on you, even though it's not you, and it can feel horrible. And this is the thing that kind of a lot of attorneys go through when they start their jobs and recessions. There's suddenly people are very critical of them and they never say that it's never blamed an economic conditions.
They always play in the attorneys and and that may have happened to you or be happening. And if it is, you have to, just have a lot of. And be very strong psychologically and realize that it's not, you I've seen people when market slowdown told that, they made a typographical error document and or they don't like your attitude or who knows.
I They can [00:53:00] just make up all sorts of things. Being sued for malpractice is the other big one, so that's can happen. That's more about senior attorneys, but if it's serious it can hurt you not being easy to work with. Just think about that. So when you're working in a law firm, people want to like you, and if they don't like you and you are difficult to work with and you make giving your work difficult and you don't you asked too many questions about things or you're not cooperative that can hurt you.
Partners are sometimes let go for being screamers of the Littler's abusive partners and associates often get a reputation for being very difficult to work with. There are certain people that are just not easy to work with then that can hurt you. And I've seen lots of people looser jobs for that and refuse to work with certain people because of that.
And let associates fired for that asking too many unnecessary questions when you're going to assignments as an associate just may be being very difficult. So just think about yourself. If if you are asking someone to do something and and they make it very difficult to ask you a 50 di